fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #639 ]

⌈ Secret Post #639 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → here! (RANK 16)

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 368 secrets from Secret Submission Post #092.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

There's something wrong with what you're saying, here. You say it's not open to interpratation because it was rape and therefore is serious, but if somebody didn't see it as rape, what you're saying doesn't work, since they're not taking it as seriously as you do.

And while I agree that some things cannot be open to interpratation, it is a TV show. A sci-fi, not very serious TV show. I don't thing anything in a show like that is so serious that there can really be 'no other valid interpratation'.

Also, you don't even seem to have seen the same scene I did. When I go out and put on make-up and perfume to make myself look better, am I raping the guy I will sleep with that night, because he wouldn't have slept with me if I had been my normal self? I think screaming 'RAPE!' at everything is direspectful to what it really is.

It doesn't matter where it shows up, rape should always be taken seriously. I did not say it is not open to interpretation because it was rape. I said that it was not open to interpretation because there is really no other valid way to read that scene without going to ridiculous lengths to try and excuse the inexcusable. She was unwilling to sleep with him, he sprayed her with a drug to make her willing. That is, by definition, rape.

If you can't see the difference between spraying someone with a drug that makes them think in a completely different way than they did before and wearing makeup then there is no sense in talking to you because you do not understand. Slipping a roofie in someone's drink is totally like putting makeup and perfume on, too. After all "he wouldn't have slept with me if I had been my normal self" so it's okay to do anything to force someone to sleep with you.

You don't understand what I'm saying either. You're twisting what happened to prove your point. He sprayed himself, not the girl, which reminded me a lot more of perfume than roofies.

I understand you see it your way, but it's your attitude I have a problem with. Since you seem to be stuck in your black-and-white world behind your self-righteous fence, I don't really see the point in talking to you either. I also understand that no matter what I say, I won't be able to make you open your mind a bit more. This horse has been long-dead anyway, and I've been branded as a 'bad person' for liking a fictional character for too long anyway.

I hate the Torchwood fandom...

Sorry! I got a tiny detail wrong. Please forgive my enormous error.

The point is not whether he sprayed himself or he sprayed her, the point is the effect was to take away any choice she had in the matter.

You seem to be taking this all way too personally. Saying Owen is a bad person is not the same as saying his fans are bad people.

You don't understand what rape is. Rape is taking away someone's ability to choose whether to have sex.

Spraying yourself with scifi "fuck me" spray is not the same as making yourself smell good or look nice. The people he raped didn't say "oh he smells nice, I'm going to give him another chance."

They were compelled to have sex with him, when they would not have made that choice without his using drugs to compel them. They made that choice clear to him and he took away their ability to choose. That's rape.

Spraying yourself with scifi "fuck me" spray is not the same as making yourself smell good or look nice. The people he raped didn't say "oh he smells nice, I'm going to give him another chance."

Actually, I'd be very interested in how you came to that conclusion. I don't see any proof in canon that it isn't.

Before Owen sprayed himself, the boyfriend was going to beat the crap out of Owen for stealing his girlfriend. It was only after Owen used SpaceDateRape For Men that the boyfriend kissed Owen.

Why the almost instantaneous change from aggrieved to amorous? Because of the spray.

Go out tonight and chat up a guy. If he turns you down, spray yourself with your favourite perfume. See if it makes him like you better.

Concern!troll, out to educate us all! Hooray!

Now I'm going to go remember when people used to just let TV be fun.

Yeah, only concern trolls don't like date rape.

There is an enormous difference between putting forward an idealised version of yourself, by wearing make up or talking up your career or status, yes, lying in whatever way, to drugging someone who'd said they weren't interested in you so that they'd be more compliant.

If Owen had used Rohypnol instead of an alien sci-fi spray would his actions still be defensible? Just because he did not use physical force to coerce the other party, doesn't mean it wasn't rape. And just because the other party did not and was not in a position to make a complaint against him doesn't negate the fact it was rape either.

You're repeating the same argument over and over, based on the same fact. You still don't explain that fact, and it doesn't resolves the main problem I have with your argument.

[ SECRET POST #639 ]

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