fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #639 ]

⌈ Secret Post #639 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → here! (RANK 16)

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 368 secrets from Secret Submission Post #092.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"Changed himself to be more desirable" is the same thing as taking away someone's ability to consent. That woman had no interest in Owen, before he used that spray to remove her free will. Owen wasn't more attractive. The point of the drug was that it removed the ability to choose (see: the boyfriend that would have kicked his ass, but did a complete 180 after being sprayed). They didn't get to choose. It was rape.

The Master has a huge following and isn't very nice. There's no reason to make Owen a fluffybunnykins, when he's perfectly capable of using drugs to manipulate people.

Hum, no? No one said the drug's effect was to take away someone's ability to consent. You can choose to see it that way, but you're basing your judgement on very little proof, here.

At least admit that.

No one said that, but it's very obvious from watching the scene.

I happen to think that no, it wasn't obvious, unless you are looking for things to judge.

Oh, you got me. I was watching the first episode of Torchwood not because I thought I might enjoy it (and I do enjoy Torchwood, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything each character does) but because I was LOOKING FOR THINGS TO JUDGE! I do so love judging.

You're not alone, anon. Obviously, we're just looking for things to hate about a show that we like.

It's not what I meant. I'm saying you go into a show and get way to personally involved about 'subtext'.

I do think you love judging, though, it's true, and are really looking for things to hate.

Yeah, we're the ones who are too involved. We're not the ones who feel personally persecuted because other people think that a character we like is a rapist.

Actually, I'm only getting 'so involved' because I'm apparently pissing so many people off. This has nothing to do with the fandom anymore.

Right.

Yep.

This is not subtext. It is text. (Just because something is not spoken does not make it "subtext.")

It's not subtext. It happened on screen.

I like the Master. I like Owen. It doesn't bother me, if people think they're not nice. Why does it bother you?

It doesn't bother me. I like bad guys, I'm used to it. It's the general attitude here that bothers me.

Surely there is a difference between liking bad guys and insisting that bad guys are, in fact, good guys.

Just like there's a difference between thinking a bad guy is bad and saying no one should love them.

That would be a good point if anyone was actually saying that.

Re: 110

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-06 14:10 (UTC) - Expand

We didn't look for it. It's plain as day to anyone that understands what rape means. It's sad that you're too deficient to recognize it.

It's so nice of you telling me that I'm deficient for not seeing things the way you do! Now I see the truth!

That will make me change my mind, like, right now!

(I really don't know why I replied to this. It really isn't worth it.)

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If you obviously can't see the show right in front of you, your deficiency is obvious.

Humhum. You're trying to make me realize my, hum, deficiency. That's good to know! An anon on a wank community at LJ is saying I'm deficient! Oh no! What shall I do?

It doesn't make you sound hip or cool, I'm sorry. You're insulting people with real deficiency by assuming that people who don't agree with you or, in this case, don't see things the same way, are deficient.

No one is trying to make you realize/think anything. They are just pointing out the obvious.

Was it more obvious when he did it to the boyfriend?

Boyfriend before rape spray: I'm going to kick your head in for taking my girlfriend.
Boyfriend after rape spray: Come here and kiss me... Om nom nom.

Spot the difference? He used a drug on them to make them pliable. Owen would have fucked them both without their informed consent. That is rape.

Did you watch the scene? The woman made a choice not to have sex with him. The man made a choice to do something other than have sex with him. They clearly communicated that choice to Owen. Instead of respecting their choice not to have sex with him, he used scifi "fuck me" spray to get them to have sex with him. Their behavior indicated that they didn't have a choice about finding him attractive or having sex with him.

You are the one twisting the scene. It's very obvious that "no" doesn't mean "no" to you. They said no. He didn't respect that. He's a rapist.

This.