[ SECRET POST #4614 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4614 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 43 secrets from Secret Submission Post #661.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I have a slightly different take on this: They can register disgust at the story in an appropriate setting (like in a secrets comm, or on their own blog).

But not a) in the comments of the fic (as long as it was appropriately tagged) and b) not in a way that incites others to harass them, like perhaps naming the title of the fic/the author, as opposed to making it a more vague rant.

And it does not seem like they did either of those things.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT, and same. At this point, I dunno if I should call myself an anti for thinking fictional child porn is disgusting and so are a lot of the people who get off on it, or hating a couple of villains for the awful shit they do.

So many, idk, anti-antis say that they’re just railing against antis for doxxing people and sending death threats and so on, but I really hope the people freaking out about antis for actual heinous shit like razor blade pastries aren’t the same people who react to any hint of criticism of their creepy kinks or favorite heartless villain characters as though antis murdered their dog.

A group of “antis” saying “x character is a fucking monster who should be strapped to a rocket and fired into the sun,” or “jfc what the fuck is wrong with people, an eight year old fucking an adult is horrifying, not sexy” to each other or in a public forum, properly password protected, or labeled with anti tags, or whatever’s an appropriate warning for fans of the thing the antis are being antis about, isn’t the end of the fucking world and doesn’t herald the unstoppable rise of the Thought Police.

I like some questionable stuff myself, and as long as people tag stuff anti-“questionable stuff I like” and don’t try to get me fired for liking it, I don’t care. But damn am I sick of people reacting to people saying “ew, that’s disgusting,” or “guys, this makes me uncomfortable, I shouldn’t have to stumble on stuff like this with no warning” as though the next step on from “I hate x thing,” or even “I don’t want to interact with fans of x thing” is book burnings and reeducation camps.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you are allowed to think whatever you want, you're just not always allowed to act based on your thoughts about those topics. And this is the difference with antis we all want to fuck off from our fandoms.

I find child porn in general disgusting, but 15-17yo characters having sex with people who are 20-30 (which, iirc, is the main age range of pairings being attacked) is not by default disgusting and isn't even considered child porn by definition of that word. You can find it disgusting, I find it disgusting in some specific cases, but you should just accept that not everyone will think like that, and that it is their right and you are not in any way morally superior to them.

Also, age-ing up characters a few years, because a writer wants to explore the character dynamic, but without one of them being in high school, isn't child porn either, by any definition of child porn, since none of the involved characters are of the age where they would be considered children in those works.
But I never see this level of nuance when antis start harass people or try to force their way of thinking onto everyone else.
I also wonder how you know what the writers/readers in question get off to? Are you spying on them in their houses. (But to be serious, it's always strange to me to hear that assumption that everyone gets off to fic, since I don't at all, no matter how old the characters involved are.)
Also, how many popular characters and fandoms with loud anti movements that involve 14yo or younger characters being shipped with much older characters even are there? I doubt that this is the age ranges that even come up that often in anti discourse. I have yet to think of a fandom where people ship an 8 year old with an adult. Those are not the pairings anti-antis defend on regular basis and not the fandoms where I want antis to go away. But, on principle, I would defend anyone writing and reading anything, unless someone has proof that that writer/reader endorses those things happening IRL.
Fiction is not reality and not endorsement of reality, but real actions matter, except antis don't harass/complain about anyone based on proof, because they don't have any, and research doesn't generate likes and reblogs/retweets.

Also, tags are always sufficient warning, and chose not to warn is a warning in itself on AO3. Antis whom other people want to shut up don't just object to not being warned, they tend to go into dedicated pairing tags and call people disgusting unprompted. They also tend to message writers/artists telling them that they will report them to child services, if they find out that that writer has children. They also tend to comment on fanfic about pairings they find disgusting, even when everything is perfectly tagged and the anti shouldn't even have read the fic, unless they wanted to harass the writer specifically.

Antis don't want to co-exist, they want to chase off people with different opinions that disagree with their doctrines or opinions on morals. This is one of those things where I think antis are like alt-right, because alt-right are that group that can't tolerate people with different views and wants them gone/exterminated/locked up etc.

I am more than happy to deal with people who judge me from their own corner, since I don't need to interact with them. I only object to them coming into my corner, disrupting any nice existing fandom atmosphere, and chasing away people I actually enjoy having in my corners.

I also don't care if people say that "x character is a fucking monster who should be strapped to a rocket and fired into the sun", I just want them to stop harrassing (i.e. seeking out deliberately in specific spaces) people who enjoy this character and implying that they must endorse the actions of this character IRL, if they don't want to 'strap them to a rocket and fire them into the sun'. And Antis are allowed to say that, but the fans are allowed to tell them to fuck off, block them and shun them from then on. Hating a fictional villain doesn't make anyone morally superior or special, and if you specifically seek out spaces with people who like that villain, they're allowed to respond to you in kind.

But, I have yet to see any case of antis who are not loud assholes to people about clearly warned content in spaces that allow said content. The problem with antis is that they go out of their way to be in those spaces and complain about content those spaces were made for.
Until fandom moved to LJ I have never interacted with antis, because I stuck to moderated communities made for content I enjoy. The fact that they strive in spaces without boundaries and moderation should tell you everything as to why people want them gone.