[ SECRET POST #4623 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4623 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #662.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I have yet to see an explanation for being nb that doesn't burn down to 'an assortment of gender stereotypes the individual in question doesn't feel like prescribing to'. Which sure. If you feel that way. I just think it's actually much less progressive to say "if you don't like/fit these stereotypes you're a different gender" instead of promoting the thought that you can be content with yourself/your sex without having to follow a set of stereotypes.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

And I have yet to see any nb person that matches this frequently cited internally-misogynist bogeyman who explains their nb identity by listing female stereotypes they don't fit. Usually they simply say being identified as a woman just didn't feel right and it's really not something you can explain to someone it hasn't happened to.

Re: DA

[hey_hey_hey]

Saying it feels uncomfortable being identified as female doesn't really refute anything the anon you responded to said.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Not feeling right being identified as a woman is in the majority of cases in some way of another based on internalized misogyny. You don't have to literally list the stereotypes to be subconsciously aware of them and feel uncomfortable about them.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue that the opposite is true. Making a point of identifying yourself as a woman is based on internalized misogyny. No one goes out of their way to identify as tall, or blue-eyed, because no one believes that these markers matter in any context other than purely a physical description. But when it comes to gender, people absolutely do believe that it has a tremendous impact on who you are as a person.

Hell, this secret was started by a person who believes in the difference between genders to such an extent that they are uncomfortable in places, where women are not the majority. If all genders are the same, why prefer the company of one over the other? Can you give me a single argument that cannot be brought down to stereotyping people based on their gender?

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

We will have to agree to disagree on that. I don't see why identifying as female would be rooted in interanlised misogyny. That just doesn't make any sense.

I mean, in gender theory, a lot of it comes down to personal belief/opinion. I, personally, don't believe in gender as opposed to sex. (I don't want to use the term gender critical because that has been used primarily by radfem terfs). I acknowledge transsexual people exist and I will make an exception in my scepticism of nonbinariism for intersex people . But other than that, I don't think adopting a special gender based on your personality traits makes much sense.
OP never said anything about being uncomfortable.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I personally believe that people like you are unaware of your own biases. Point me to your comment under this secret, in which you point out to the OP that they are wrong in wishing for fandom to be majorly-female, as there is no inherent difference between the way women act vs the way men act, so it's pointless to prefer the company of one gender over the other. Why don't people like you, people who "totes don't believe in gender" never actually try to make me feel like my sex doesn't have a major impact in who I am as a person, and whether they feel comfortable in my company?

I spent my whole life trying to prove that I am not different from the opposite sex, neither better nor worse, yet the so-called "feminists" in fandom who all claim to "not feel like a woman on the side" write post after post after post about how very important it is to them that I identify myself in the fandom space as a woman, as opposed to a man, or god forbid something that doesn't make it easy to instantly categorize me as "safe and comfortable member of the grand sisterhood" versus "dangerous oppressor invading the female space not meant for him"? Posts after posts about how extremely crucial it is to them that everyone adjusts their language to what they think my genitalia is, all the while claiming that they believe my genitalia doesn't matter to them? If people didn't treat men and women differently, we wouldn't have this secret, yet you are fine with it, because you are blind to the way you treat men and women differently.

The wonderful thing about the nonbinary identity is that I can finally taste the freedom from these hidden biases. You can't instantly tell whether an NB person in fandom is AMAB or AFAB, so you are forced to interact with them in a truly gender-neutral way, or else reveal your inherent bias by assuming one. And you usually assume female, don't you? Because girls are just so very, very different from boys and don't act like the boys at all! You can just look at the way a person types, and what they say, and how they say it, and what they find important in life, and the things they like, and the fanfics they read, and you can instantly tell what gender - sorry, sex - they are, that's how very different women and men are! And, naturally, only girls could be such gross wannabe special snowflakes! And it's not sexist to think that, as long as you dress up this sentiment in the language of social justice and fake concern over the wellbeing of these gross girls you constantly belittle.

It's people like you that made me almost transition. The open sexism is easy to identify, but this sick hidden bias just creates this deep, all-encompassing feeling of wrongness and judgement that I used to think came from inside me, from my body. But it was just all these internet "feminists", who dedicate their lives to making people constantly aware of their sex, while lying to their face about it not mattering.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Your sex does have an impact on you. It's called hormones. It's called socilaisation. The thing is: I would like for gender noncomforming behaviour to be an acceptable way to live your life without having to identify as something "other". Which isn't a thing yet, but you can also wish for a non-homophobic society even if it's not yet a thing. I just don't think making up new categories for anyone who act outside an arbitrary set of stereotypes is the way to go.

And I also don't like to associate with the feminist ideology because I am not a fan of plenty of their subgroups. So IDK what you want me to tell you in that regard.

You can identify as anything you like. I just don't have to take it seriously. Go and keep your cute assumptions that have zero basis, blame your issues on anyone else. I don't particularly care to be honest. The only thing your rant made obvious is that you only seem to identify as nonbinary because it makes you something special that you think makes you immune to criticism. You keep pulling weird assumption out of thin air and I really have no interest in engaging in that kind of petty thing.

[(Anonymous)]

For me, as an amab genderqueer person, I'm keenly aware that getting clocked as insufficiently masculine can lead to me getting fired, harassed, beaten, and sexually assaulted. All of those things have actually happened.

I'm also increasingly aware that the stress of putting on cis-masculine drag on a day to day basis so that I don't have to worry about homelessness, lack of health care, or being bashed on the street (again, things that have actually happened) has long-term health consequences that are less and less sustainable as I hit the wrong side of 50.

[(Anonymous)]

Which imo only shows that it's way more important to work towards acceptance of gender non-conformance than to make up new "genders" for every GNC variation.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue they're not really "new" genders. White American culture (I have to specify that) has marked queer gender expression as "different" for about two centuries by medicalizing and criminalizing it.

But, I have 20 years of experience getting treatment under the "oh sweetie, men can do that too" paradigm. Psychology based on reforming or expanding or reconciling what I am with my AGAB has not worked in 20 years. So, it's time to try something new, and trans-affirming work over the last year has made a huge difference in my life.

And I'm profoundly unconvinced that true acceptance of GNC still mandates interpreting everything with two boxes.

[(Anonymous)]

Imo, more boxes won't necessarily make things better either.

[(Anonymous)]

As much as I hate the idea of coding anything I do beyond "this is what I do," unfortunately I have to negotiate with boxes like "cross-dressing," "gender-nonconforming," "nonbinary," and "queer." How I present does have consequences, even though that's a lot more complicated to explain for anyone. "Nonbinary" and "genderqueer" are useful shorthand for explaining that what I do isn't drag, feminization, lingering goth fashion, or SNAGism. And as I said, getting SNAG-focused therapy really doesn't do much for my mental health.

[(Anonymous)]

what the hell is SNAG-ism!?

[(Anonymous)]

Sensitive New-Age Guy, which was the "boys can cry too" model back when I started having to deal with that.

[(Anonymous)]

different anon here- I'm so, so happy that you're finally getting the affirmation you rightfully deserve and i'm even more glad that it's working for you. I'm sorry you had and still have to go through a bunch of nonsense and crap. I wish you all the best from here on out.