fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #648 ]

⌈ Secret Post #648 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[FF7; Crisis Core]

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103.

[Parting Glances; Steve Buscemi]

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104.

[Transformers movie/New Knight Rider]

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105.

[Creepy houses in Stephen King novels]

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106.

[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]

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107.

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108.

[Dexter]

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109.

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

[Looking for Group webcomic]

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114.

[Tales of Symphonia]

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115.

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116.

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117.

[Supernatural]

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118.

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119.

[Persona 3; Minato/Aigis]

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120.

[Dallas]

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121.

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122.

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123.

[Doctor Who]

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124.

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125.

[To the Manor Born]

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

[BNFs?]

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130.

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131.

[Jonathan Coulton/Portal]

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132.

[Prince of Tennis]

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133.

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134.

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135.

[Pushing Daisies]

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136.

[House MD]

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137.

[Supernatural]

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138.

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139.

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140.

[Emma Watson]

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141.

[The French Revolution?/Shipping]

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142.

[The Dark Knight]

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143.

[Prince of Tennis musical]

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144.

[Kiefer Sutherland]

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145.

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146.

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147.

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]

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153.

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154.

[Code Geass]

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155.

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156.

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157.

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158.

[Spongebob Squarepants; Squidward]

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159.

[*secret comms]

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160.

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161.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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162.

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163. [not fandom]

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164.

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165.

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166.

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167.

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168.

[CHUCK NORRIS]

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169.

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170.

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171.

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172.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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173.

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174.

[Batman Begins; Scarecrow]

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175.

[Supernatural]

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176.

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177.

[Henry Rollins]

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 224 secrets from Secret Submission Post #093.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - a random picture but it's cool ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Actually, I'm talking about both of those things.

I don't think so. I was talking about fics where both of the characters are Very Very Manly. They're emotionally constipated, completely incapable of saying the word "love" and frequently rhapsodize about how wonderful it is to have sex with someone who's the same size as you. Since very few people are 100% masculine, fics that ignore any "girly" parts of a character's personality are OOC.

Just the inability to conceptualize a slash pairing as anything other than a het pairing, but, you know, with two penises.

Now, I haven't been in a heterosexual romance since high school, so I can't speak authoritatively but I'm pretty sure that all het couples aren't all the same. And since there's no one way to act like a "het pairing" then I'm going to assume that you're talking about stereotypical romantic cliches. Which, like I said, are not realistic period. Especially not for the female characters in most of the fandoms I know about (I'm trying to think of any fandoms where it would be IC to write about the fragile little woman who just needs a big strong man to protect her. So far, I haven't come with any).

The real problem is that most people have a very narrow, limited view of how romance works (in fiction, that is). It's just obvious in slash because we're not used to it. That doesn't mean that it's more acceptable in het -- just less noticeable.

Ugh, sorry if this is incoherent, but... I just don't understand why this is a big deal. I mean, sure it's bad to write characters as OOC but I don't know why this particular kind of OOC is so much worse than any other.

Now that you bring up OOC, I think another problem people have with slash is that they feel it's making the character OOC... But again, that shouldn't be much worse than any other kind of OOC. It's just that slash fandom is so big that there's a big backlash against it, and then slash fandom will fight back against the anti-slash fandom, and then the anti-slash fandom will complain about being silenced, and so on and so forth...

I don't know. I maintain that there are differences between het and slash, at least in terms of the fandom, the whole conversation surrounding it (or lack thereof) is a mess.

Oooh, this is tough. See, I'm trying to be diplomatic because you've been very intelligent and reasonable through this discussion, but if I had a list of Reasons People Hate Slash That Are Probably Somewhat Homophobic, the whole, "this character could never, ever, ever be gay! If a person hasn't come out to everyone on the planet, they're 3000% completely straight!" would probably be in the top five. Now, while it may not be vitriolically homophobic (though it definitely can be), it's excruciatingly heteronormative.

This is also one that gets to me for personal reasons: someone looking at me probably wouldn't know I'm a lesbian. Since I rarely talk about my personal life, someone who didn't know me very well would think that I was straight. So I get a bit irked by claims that everyone who doesn't wear a giant scarlet Q is automatically heterosexual.

But see, you've just assumed that because I said it can be OOC, I mean that every single character who isn't canonically gay is OOC should they ever mess around with the opposite sex, so it goes both ways. I understand that frustration, for sure, and I think it's totally merited - but on the other hand, I don't think I'm being heteronormative when I make an argument for a happily married man being mostly straight and as disinclined to experiment as he is to cheat on his wife (I want to give a specific example, but it's animanga, so...). Both of those things happen in reality, yes - but you have to look at the characters as individuals. I believe in a sliding scale of sexuality, but I don't think everybody slides from 1 - 10 if you catch my drift.

It's also not just the sexuality that's OOC. There's a propensity to slash brothers and best friends and I don't think it's always illegitimate to feel annoyed at seeing a meaningful platonic relationship sexualized.

On the other hand, a lot of the hostility from that could come from the fact that meaningful platonic relationships in media are most usually between two men. Eliminating platonic relationships becomes an unintended side-effect of slash that draws a lot of ire.

There are so many different ways to look at this!

you've just assumed that because I said it can be OOC

You're right. I'm sorry about that -- in my defense it was very late when I wrote my last few replies and my brain wasn't working well.

I don't think I'm being heteronormative when I make an argument for a happily married man being mostly straight and as disinclined to experiment as he is to cheat on his wife

Hmm... Do you mean experiment while he was still married? Because, in that case, I absolutely agree. But I would say that it is heteronormative to assume that a happily married man is mostly straight. There are plenty of bisexual people in long, stable heterosexual relationships, after all. Depending on how long the man has been with his wife, it's even possible that he had a few gay relationships before they were married.

I believe in a sliding scale of sexuality, but I don't think everybody slides from 1 - 10

I agree. While there are characters out there that I can buy as closeted gay men/lesbians, they're few and far between. You do have to take the characters previous heterosexual relationships into account when writing slash.

On the other hand, a lot of the hostility from that could come from the fact that meaningful platonic relationships in media are most usually between two men. Eliminating platonic relationships becomes an unintended side-effect of slash that draws a lot of ire.

Do you mean that slash is eliminating depictions of meaningful platonic relationships in the media? Because I haven't seen any evidence of that (though, now that I think about it, this may be true in anime fandoms. But since that's based on stuff I've heard from people who aren't even in those fandoms I probably should keep my mouth shut). While a few shows, House, for example, may occasionally play with homoerotic subtext, it never moves beyond fanservice. House and Wilson aren't going to start dating just because a few fans want them to. Besides, this sort of thing isn't exactly new: Due South was deliberately playing up the slashy subtext more than ten years ago. So, my point is that there is an increasing number of people who are interested in seeing two men (or two women) together and we're likely to see this reflected in the media. But the market for stories about platonic love between men than is significantly larger and will probably remain much larger, so I don't think it's in any danger of becoming extinct.

[ SECRET POST #648 ]

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