[ SECRET POST #4654 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4654 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Great British Bake Off, season 10]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #666.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP, but they kinda abandoned her when she needed them, Ty Lee has reason because she was forced into helping her, but Mai only did it because she wanted to help Zuko more. I highly doubt either of them would have actually been willing to support Azula without prodding. Azula was absolutely wrong and unhinged, but she definitely put more weight in her relationship with Ty Lee and Mai than they did her, imo.

Plus they were a lot of the reason Azula broke in the first place, from what I can remember, I'm not sure them being there would have helped very much.

[(Anonymous)]

x Azula was absolutely wrong and unhinged, but she definitely put more weight in her relationship with Ty Lee and Mai than they did her, imo.

OR they did value their relationship with her until her psychopathic behavior became too much and alienated them? And I like how you say Mai turned on Azula to help Zuko like the fact that she loved Zuko and Azula wanted to kill him had nothing to do with it.

To return to the original point, I don't see any reason to claim that Azula's former friends wouldn't be willing to help her if she had a redemption arc because as of where the series left the character, we don't have any evidence that she would be redeemed. It could go either way. These tweets could say "Azula will be redeemed but Zuko wants nothing to do with her" and it would make just as much sense.

[(Anonymous)]

That was what I meant. Mai sided with Zuko, despite him locking her in a prison cell, because she loved him that much. I meant that she never really minded Azula's psychotic behaviour, or that it was never depicted really, because she was so apathetic towards everything but Zuko.
Azula only broke after they abandoned her, she had no reason to alienate them before that. Mai needed Zuko to push against Azula, and Ty Lee needed Mai as someone to stand with her in order to stand up against Azula.

After she was redeemed yes, but Ty Lee makes it fairly clear that she never really wanted to side with Azula in the first place. Azula had to burn down her circus in order for her to join her. I suppose you're probably right about Mai being with her though, as she would support Zuko (I imagine) if he decided to help Azula back from her break.
There's nothing wrong with talking hypotheticals btw.

[(Anonymous)]

Azula wanting to kill Zuko WAS the part of the psychopathic behavior that finally alienated Mai. And it's baffling to say that Azula did nothing else to alienate her friends before their betrayal, when she constantly verbally abused them while sliding further and further into rage and violence. Even in The Beach, an episode meant to reaffirm their friendship, she was verbally abusive to her friends. But this episode at least gives us cause to believe that Ty Lee cared about Azula as a person on some level while still fearing her, whereas Mai, yeah, probably only cared about Zuko (and that's okay).

I think it's really telling when fans characterize Mai's and Ty Lee's actions through the lens of betrayal and abandonment, making it all about Azula, when it was actually that they cared about other people (Zuko and Mai, respectively) and wanted to protect them from Azula.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I have a feeling I'm not writing what I'm thinking here...
I agree? I'm not saying that Azula did nothing to alienate them, only that it was the breaking point. I personally found 'The Beach' episode very contrary to what it was trying to reaffirm. I didn't think it was much of an episode at all, really. My guess is that Ty Lee is just a genuinely good person, and sees that Azula can mean well even while acting against that... If that makes sense. I'm sure there is some leftover care from their childhood where she doesn't want Azula to fall off the deep end and stay there, but I doubt it's enough to put herself back into the line of fire in order to heal her after what Azula put them through.
I didn't mean to imply that Azula was the only reason, I'm not even sure what you mean by that, I'm not exactly involved in the Avatar fandom, so I'm not sure where I'm treading wrong, tbh. I did say they betrayed her because of each other and Zuko. If you're talking about me using the word 'betrayal' specifically, then that's because that is what they did, and having a good reason for it does not make it anything else? Azula commanded them to attack, and they attacked her instead. That is betrayal, even if they are in the right to do so.

[greenvelvetcake]

> they were a lot of the reason Azula broke in the first place

That's an interesting way to word "Ty Lee and Mai no longer wanted to be afraid and bullied by someone they once counted as a good friend."

[(Anonymous)]

Its not mutually exclusive

[(Anonymous)]

There's a distinct cause and effect, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Right??

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. They put up with a LOT of shit for far longer than they really should have, but eventually even they had their breaking points.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt
That doesn't mean that they weren't influential in Azula's breakdown. Just because they had a good reason for leaving does not mean Azula felt the same. They were the only constant Azula had, even if that meant through control over them. I'm not saying Azula was right, or justified, I'm just saying that she was hurt by their betrayal, and it was betrayal no doubt about it, even if it's only in Azula's mind.

[(Anonymous)]

DA Their "betrayal" was entirely her fault, though. I really don't understand your chain of reasoning here. They didn't do anything wrong--they left a shitty person behind.

[(Anonymous)]

Betraying a shitty person is still betraying them, even if they were right to do so. It was absolutely Azula's fault, and they absolutely did nothing wrong in doing so.
It's like blowing the whistle on a scumbag, you're still a whistle-blower but it benefits everyone involved. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm doing a terrible job at typing what I'm thinking it seems, sorry about that.
Basically, they went against Azula's order to attack by attacking her instead, that is by definition betrayal... basically.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I see. Yeah, it's a betrayal by strict definition and a /military/ betrayal, definitely, but I think everyone is interpreting what you're saying as it being a betrayal of their friendship, which is harder to swallow because Azula in that case destroyed the friendship all on her own.

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh... Why do words have to suck... Sorry about the misunderstanding guys, not how I meant it.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. They left her because it was no longer healthy for them to be around her. She was a toxic person and they had no obligation to put up with any of that.

[(Anonymous)]

Azula bullied and terrorized both girls into joining her on her quest in the first place, and was manipulative and abusive to both of them throughout their journey. Flashbacks showed that she had always bullied them to some extent. This "well, obviously Ty Lee and Mai just didn't care about Azula enough" thing is a pretty gross take on leaving an abusive relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

Mai stabbed her in the back because Zuko’s dick was too bomb

[(Anonymous)]

It really is.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yes, but this has no standing on the fact that they left, and more-so, in the way they left. I did in fact say that Azula had to burn down Ty Lee's circus in order for her to join, never did I intend to imply that they had anything close to a healthy relationship.
My first point was that they wouldn't be with Azula to help her recover from her breakdown, because they didn't have that close of a bond, despite Azula's thinking so. Now if I'm allowed to throw accusations- why would you support both Mai and Ty Lee returning to an obviously toxic relationship and support Azula when it will do nothing but hurt them, even if/when Azula makes a full redemption?

[(Anonymous)]

DA I mean if she makes a full redemption, it would likely stop being a toxic relationship. That's...part of redemption. She would have to change.