fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #653 ]

[ SECRET POST #653 ]

⌈ Secret Post #653 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!; Dino/Hibari]

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103.

[Stargate Atlantis; McShep]

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104.

[Beatles]

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105.

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106.

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107.

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108.

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109.

[Miyavi]

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110.

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111.

[Catherine Tate/James Nesbitt]

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112.

[FFVII etc; Zack Fair]

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113.

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114.

[The Office]

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115.

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116.

[Camp Rock]

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117.

[Kingdom Hearts]

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118.

[Picture is Torchwood]

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119.

[Vincent Van Gogh/Paul Gauguin]

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120.

[Matila]

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121.

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122.

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123.

[Detroit Metal City]

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124.

[Mamma Mia (movie)]

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

[Code Geass]

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129.

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130.

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131.

[Alexander Hamilton?]

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132.

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133.

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134.

[Xenosaga]

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135.

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]

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136.

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137.

[Yu Yu Hakusho]

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138.

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139.

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140.

[Gurren Lagann; Kittan]

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141.

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142.

[Torchwood]

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143.

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144.

[OrgInfinity; Black Tears]

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145.

[Hellboy]

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146.

[pic is GirlSnake and GirlOtacon from MGS]

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147.

[G Gundam]

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148.

[The Office]

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149.

[Zelda: Phantom Hourglass]

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150.

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151.

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152.

[Hoshi no Yakata by Tori Maia]

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153.

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]

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154.

[Destination Truth]

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155.

[World of Warcraft]

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156.

[Metal Gear Solid]

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157.

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158.

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159.

[Death Note]

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160.

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

HAS EVERYONE SEEN THE MOTHER 3 FAN TRANSLATION? (:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 367 secrets from Secret Submission Post #094.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Keep putting words in my mouth, bb.

annwyd and I are on the same page, here.

When did I put words into your mouth? You do believe that gen and het fans are in some way superior to slash fans, right?

No, I just think that it's perfectly valid to talk about annoying yaoi fans in a different light than annoying het and gen fans because irritating, 14 year old yaoi fangirls are partaking in a fandom phenomena that's unlike het or gen. So, I think that there are more annoying yaoi/slash fans than het/gen ones, that the annoying factor is different, and that it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend like the DA demographic's propensity to tender boy love isn't the Twilight of the internet. I don't think it makes het/gen superior or that it means that no slash/yaoi fan can ever be intelligent and compelling, just like how I don't think that the existence of Twilight means that books everywhere suck.

... so that's a yes, then?

I typed up four different responses to this comment, but that's what they all boiled down to. You think that het and gen fans are, on the whole, less annoying than slash and yaoi fans, right? And that, even when they are annoying, it's a better kind of annoying, yes? And, if I'm interpreting one of your previous comments correctly, you also believe that het and gen fans always have good, valid reasons for criticizing slash and yaoi. Do you think that slash and yaoi fans could have good, valid reasons for dislike het or gen? Why do you give het and gen fans the benefit of the doubt, but not slashers?

Look, I'm not trying to be mean here. But I just can't imagine what other conclusion I could logically draw from your argument.

Um... no. I think that there are more annoying yaoi fans than there are het/gen fans. I think this is so because yaoi is, as I said, trendy among 14 year old fangirls who happen to be really annoying, probably by virture of being 14.

Superiority has nothing to do with anything.

I think this is so because yaoi is, as I said, trendy among 14 year old fangirls who happen to be really annoying, probably by virture of being 14.

All right. So, now your point is that the vast majority of slash fans are 14 and that 14 year olds are inherently annoying. Because of this, the vast majority of slash fans are annoying. That about it?

The problem there is that I don't know a single 14 year old slash fan. In my experience, most slashers are between 20 and 30. This was true even when I was 15 year old slash fan. That doesn't mean that there aren't young fans out there -- they just aren't the majority.

You also seem to be implying that there are either no 14 year old het fans, or that those fans are less annoying. The first is definitely not true (who do you think is writing all those Mary Sues?) and the second... well, that goes back to the "slashers are inferior" territory.

All right. So, now your point is that the vast majority of slash fans are 14 and that 14 year olds are inherently annoying. Because of this, the vast majority of slash fans are annoying. That about it?

No, it's not. Again, putting words in my mouth. My point is that there are MANY of those types of fans and they are annoying, so slash fandom has this dispropportionate skew. Do you need me to draw you a diagram or are you just going to misinterpret me again?

My point is that there are MANY of those types of fans and they are annoying, so slash fandom has this dispropportionate skew.

Isn't that what I said? Maybe I didn't say it nicely enough?

There's really nothing I can say in response. I've never met the type of fans you're talking about and therefore can't judge whether or not what you say is accurate.

But you do seem to be missing my point: if the fans are annoying because they're 14, why do you keep talking about slash/yaoi? Why not complain about young, immature brats?

Do you need me to draw you a diagram or are you just going to misinterpret me again?

Maybe you should, because I'm not really sure how all of your different arguments fit together. Each comment comes with a new reason for disliking slashers.

Because we entered this discussion on the basis of yaoi/slash fans. I've already posited that it's entirely possible that yaoi fans are getting a bad rap because 14 year old kids are annoying sometimes.

Maybe you should, because I'm not really sure how all of your different arguments fit together. Each comment comes with a new reason for disliking slashers.

I don't dislike slashers. I keep having to make different arguments because you've got a new assumption about me every post. I don't dislike slashers or think het shippers are superior - I'm just recognizing a fandom trend.

Yaoi/Slash fandom (http://www.mathsrevision.net/alevel/statistics/Distri2.gif)
Het/gen fandom (http://www.psychstat.missouristate.edu/introbook/sbgraph/normal0.gif)

I've already posited that it's entirely possible that yaoi fans are getting a bad rap because 14 year old kids are annoying sometimes.

Not to me you haven't. You didn't even mention these straw teenagers until recently and when you did, your tone was nowhere near that sympathetic.

I have no idea what those charts are supposed to represent or where they came from.

Yeah, for sure. Never until recently. (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/209794.html?thread=87695234#t87695234)

They're supposed to be a visual interpretation of the point I'm trying to make - typically you get a bell curve with most of the people in the middle being reasonable and moderate, but sometimes it gets skewed to one side.

You made a one sentence reference to the average age of Kingdom Hearts yaoi fans and then never mentioned it again. When I asked what you meant, you ignored the question and went on to talk about sexism among slash fans.

They're supposed to be a visual interpretation of the point I'm trying to make - typically you get a bell curve with most of the people in the middle being reasonable and moderate, but sometimes it gets skewed to one side.

Oh, because I asked for a diagram... Now I get it.

Of course, it clarifies nothing and contains no actual facts but at least I understand why you posted it.

You didn't ask about it. You said "That's interesting, but irrelevent." I went on to respond to your post and talk about how het fans aren't inclined to say "I HATE ALL FEMALE CHARACTERS" and you went on to talk about sexism.

It clarifies my POINT. But no, it isn't factual.

You didn't ask about it. You said "That's interesting, but irrelevent."

True, though I did phrase it as a question. However, if that was your main point, the crux of your argument why didn't you follow up on it? Tell me that it was relevant, since the whole real reason people looked down on slash fans was because they were so young? If this was your whole point, why did you drop it almost immediately?

I went on to respond to your post and talk about how het fans aren't inclined to say "I HATE ALL FEMALE CHARACTERS" and you went on to talk about sexism.

Ah, my mistake. For some strange reason, I assume that if someone is talking about how slash fans hate female characters, they're accusing them of sexism. Though, again, if you weren't discussing sexism, why didn't you correct me?

It clarifies my POINT.

Not really. I'm not a complete moron: I know that your point was that slash fans are wankier/stupider/less mature/younger/insert new complaint here. I just didn't understand why you thought that.

You didn't phrase it as a question at all. I didn't follow up on it because you made 4 seperate responses and things snowballed. I don't think that that's the whole reason people are looking down on slash fans (you're assuming again), but I was responding to what I believed the OP was talking about. I dropped it almost immediately because I was responding to you in the order you seemed to prioritize your objection.

So then how can you say I "moved on" to talk about sexism? By your argument, sexism was in play from the very beginning.

I know that your point was that slash fans are wankier/stupider/less mature/younger/insert new complaint here.

I'm going to put in sparkletext if I have to say it again: THAT WAS NOT MY POINT.

You didn't phrase it as a question at all

Yep. However, I still assumed that if there was a reason that it was relevant, you would point it out. Obviously that wasn't how you read it.

I don't think that that's the whole reason people are looking down on slash fans

But, whether or not it's the "whole reason", it was your main point? Everything else in that comment was not, as I'd assumed, separate thoughts, but rather an extension of your original point about how slash fans were frequently very young. Right?

So then how can you say I "moved on" to talk about sexism? By your argument, sexism was in play from the very beginning.

Well, that's what I thought. According to you, in the beginning we were talking about the average age of slash fans, until we went off on a "tangent."

I'm going to put in sparkletext if I have to say it again: THAT WAS NOT MY POINT.

So what was your point?

My point was that slash fans have more people who are wankier/stupider/etc, not that they are inherently so. It's a subtle but important difference.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-20 04:56 (UTC) - Expand

The problem there is that I don't know a single 14 year old slash fan. In my experience, most slashers are between 20 and 30. This was true even when I was 15 year old slash fan.

Funny, most of the rabid slash fans I know are under the age of 20. They tend to become more sane and mellow out as they get older; they're still slash fans, but they're not as annoying or crazy as the teenage ones. Go to any anime convention and you'll see what I mean by that.

This. This is sort of the point I was trying to make.

Funny, most of the rabid slash fans I know are under the age of 20.

That wouldn't surprise me. Teenagers are, as a general rule, unreasonable and hyperemotional. But, then again, I know a lot of adult fans who act significantly less mature than my 14 year old sister, so...

I get the feeling that I'm not expressing myself well: it's not that I don't think that there are young, wanky slash fans.

paperclipchains said that they made up a very high percentage of the overall demographic and I was disagreeing.

I didn't say that AT ALL, I said that they SKEWED the demographic. Stop putting words in my mouth, dammit.

But that only works if slash fans are, on average, significantly younger than het fans. If both het and slash have roughly equal numbers of slash fans it can't possible skew the demographic. At least, not in the way you're talking about.

I am going to disagree with this, because for every fandom where the majority of the crazies are slash fans, there is a fandom where the majority of annoying fen are het fans. And then you have fandoms that are equally annoying on both sides.

I am also going to say that most of the fandoms that are primarily housing 14 years old also tend to be primarily het. (I say this as a het fan).

So I don't think anyone can conclusive say which side is more annoying.

To be fair, I haven't given much thought to fandom difference. I'm definitely speaking from experience (and most of that is with popular anime and video games.)

I think experience is a tricky thing. Yeah my experience has been mixed, because I am kind of across the board, and I also follow a lot of fandoms re general drama watching comms like Fandom Wank, Fanficrants, and here, so I see things kind of over the map. I have been in anime fandoms where het is more prevalent then slash.

I do think there might also be difference between yaoi and slash fans, because on the Western side and in Western fandom, slash fans do tend be older, whereas because anime fandom in general probably skews young then Western TV, yaoi fans may also in turn be younger as well.

I just realized I can't generalize based on the few fandoms that I have been in because even though they share similarities they each seem to have their own culture, some fandoms are accepting of pretty much anything and others that are clearly seperated into factions that do not get along at all, and others that are a mix. I have been in fandoms that are pretty much either slash or gen, fandoms that are all het, and even a fandom that was all femslash/yuri.

I think it really depends on what ends up being a majority in that fandom, how that majority treats the minority, and how the minority treats the majority in determining who wins the annoying award in any one given fandom.

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