[ SECRET POST #4668 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4668 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 06 secrets from Secret Submission Post #668.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I could see a scenario where trans women competing in sports could present some tricky details to iron out. But as far as I'm aware it really hasn't presented any actual widespread, concrete problems as yet, so I tend to be optimistic. And I certainly think that TERFs using the issue are fearmongering shitheads with no real point.

[(Anonymous)]

It happened several times in the recent years and SURPRISE, the trans women won.

[(Anonymous)]

When? And keep in mind, there are also plenty of instances of trans women losing.

https://www.athleteally.org/tom-blunt-trans-women-sports/

Rachel McKinnon, the first trans woman to win a major women’s cycling tournament last week, is their latest wedge. Though she fits squarely within the contest’s guidelines, the fairness of her victory was called into question by the woman who placed third; on Twitter, McKinnon has pointed out that this rival, Jennifer Wagner, has won 11 out of the 13 races they’ve competed in together. “This is what the double-bind for trans women athletes looks like,” she commented. “When we win, it’s because we’re transgender and it’s unfair; when we lose, no one notices (and it’s because we’re just not that good anyway). Even when it’s the SAME racer. That’s what transphobia looks like.”

[(Anonymous)]

Laurel Hubbard and Fallon Fox, for example. Especially in strength based competitions, it's pretty obvious that they have an unfair advantage. The fact that there just aren't that many, as you claim, is because there a&e not that many trans people, and among them, even less are competitive athletes. Doesn't mean it doesnt happen and that it's unfair when it does.
And that quote up there can be turned around. When trans women lose it's because they're ~just the same as the women they compete with~ not because they just potentially aren't that good. When they win, nobody likes them because of transphobia, not because they actually do have an unfair advantage and are too stuck up their own asses to admit it.

[(Anonymous)]

Laurel Hubbard and Fallon Fox, for example.

I mean, Fallon Fox isn't exactly dominating women's MMA and has in fact lost a fight to a cis woman. Laurel Hubbard just finished 6th at the world weightlifting championships. I don't think these really fit the bill you're looking for.

When trans women lose it's because they're ~just the same as the women they compete with~ not because they just potentially aren't that good.

But... the existence of trans women athletes who just aren't that good is, in and of itself, evidence against the thesis that trans women have an unfair advantage because they are trans and are going to dominate athletic competitions. Which is what would potentially be problematic. Trans women competing and not being good compared to cis women, or occasionally winning and occasionally losing to cis women, implies that trans women don't have a structural competitive advantage.

The problem is that you start from the assumption that trans women have an unfair advantage, and then work backwards to find things to use as evidence of that.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

To put it another way - any athlete who wins a competition by definition has an advantage over their competitors. Li Wenwen had an advantage over all of her competitors in the women's world weightlifting championship, and that advantage was that she's better at lifting weights than anyone else. And we accept that as the normal baseline.

So the question is whether the advantage was unfair. And in a case where a trans woman wins, specifically, the question we have to ask is whether the advantage was derived from being a trans woman, or whether the advantage was derived from just being better than her competitors. We have to try to differentiate those things. And the fact that trans women aren't dominating competitions and sometimes win, sometimes lose is evidence that indicates we should lean towards the conclusion that trans women don't have a structural advantage as a result of being trans.