[ SECRET POST #4668 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4668 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 06 secrets from Secret Submission Post #668.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Can't talk about the science supporting the idea that MTF transition doesn't reduce reduce physical size and strength to a comparable degree without being called a TERF. A less heard side if that there is no fairness for FTM people who want to compete (my friend is really into weightlifting but no way is he ever going to be able to compete against cis men or in any league that tests for performance enhancers because he's on male hormones). I'm 100% for all people being able to compete at all levels, but we need new divisions and rules to accomodate people fairly.

People can complain all they like about how it's not fair that people should have to classify themselves as trans to compete, but that's what competitive sport is like. It's invasive. You have to drug test in front of people, you have to be weighed in front of people, your teammates all know the smell of each other's sweat. You give up a lot of privacy for the privilege to be there.

[(Anonymous)]

Not being able to win a competition is not, in and of itself, something that deserves the creation of a new division, either. I can't win a weightlifting competition but clearly this is simply a result of me not being good enough at it, it's not the kind of thing that we think necessitates consideration.

Look, ultimately it should be up to each sport to determine the most appropriate way to regulate that sport, and what classification makes the most sense. I think, if there are real consistent problems with competitiveness, there's a number of possible different ways of classifying participants other than trans status - for example, most obviously, weight classes - that need to be weighed and considered. And so I think people who insist on a blanket imposition of a division between trans and cis athletes, without reference to the specific needs of the sport, without reference to specific problems that have been found to exist, and without consideration of other possible solutions, probably are motivated by transphobia more than anything else. I am wholeheartedly against that.

[(Anonymous)]

By that logic we would not have ever had women's sport at all.

You want to talk about transphobia but you don't want to acknowledge that the only people at a disadvantage when people are allowed to compete as their chosen genders are biologically female, and yes, that includes trans men.

There is a widespread problem with the trans community and trans allies being very vocal about MTF issues around bathrooms and sport and prisons, and lacking balance on those topics when it comes to FTM specific issues.

[(Anonymous)]

First of all, I don't think that shitting on MTF people is a good way to support FTM people.

My position is that demanding a binary, hard division between trans and cis athletes is not a good answer to the problem as it presently exists. I definitely don't think it's an answer that's consistent with a genuine concern for trans athletes. What I want is an approach that leaves things up to individual sports to make the decision that's best and most appropriate for that sport; that is responding to specific problems that actually arise, not to hypothetical problems that might or might not arise; and that minimizes interventions against trans athletes to the least amount necessary to achieve the desired goals.

[(Anonymous)]

Wanting a more balanced discussion on issues is not "shitting on" anyone. At no point have I said anything derogatory about MTF people, nor would I.

I do think it's important for all sports to address this issue now and make decisions based on the current available research. It is not fair for trans athletes to be an experiment in open divisions when they are working hard towards their goals and making sacrifices in their own lives to achieve them. The wait and see approach has the potential to be devastating when the sports bodies decide that the goal posts need to be shifted, or new rules need to be put in place.

[(Anonymous)]

So your argument is that your policies are for the benefit of trans people in general, even if they don't know it?

I have to say I don't find that a very plausible suggestion.

[(Anonymous)]

No. My argument is what I believe is best for all competitive sportspeople, based on my experience in competitive sports.

I've been subject to a code change that disqualified myself and another teammate before a major competition. It's a lot of time and hard work to get there in the first place. I want people to have a good understanding of the future vision of their sport and their place in it. I'm concerned that there is no consensus between managing bodies of major sports at different levels and that dedicated sportspeople don't have a clear pathway right now. At some point they're going to hit that lovely glass ceiling and have to watch other people surpass them because they can't progress past the tougher regulations at a higher level.

I wouldn't do trans sportspeople the disservice of thinking that the highest achievement they should be aiming for is a participation medal. Trans youth shouldn't have to choose between being true to themselves and achieving their goals in sports.

Real change in sports regulation at all levels requires a coordinated, evidence-based approach. We're not seeing that.

[(Anonymous)]

I want people to have a good understanding of the future vision of their sport and their place in it.

I think that's a good and worthy desire. My concern is that there's also a cost to enacting an overly punitive policy, and there would also be people hurt by that. So we should be careful, and specific, and evidence-based, and try to limit that harm as much as we can. Especially given that it hasn't actually been a major problem yet.

And that concern is deepened by the fact that there absolutely are a lot of people in this conversation who are significantly motivated by transphobia, and they are not interested in careful or specific or evidence-based.

I wouldn't do trans sportspeople the disservice of thinking that the highest achievement they should be aiming for is a participation medal. Trans youth shouldn't have to choose between being true to themselves and achieving their goals in sports.

I don't really understand what you mean by this.