fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #658 ]

[ SECRET POST #658 ]

⌈ Secret Post #658 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

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103.

[Looking For Group]

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104.

[Johnny the Homicidal Maniac]

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105.

[Fanfiction; Voldemort Kaulitz]

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106.

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107.

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108.

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109.

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110.

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111.

[The Penguin of Death]

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112.

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113.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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114.

[Death Note, Mello]

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115.

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116.

[MCA, KH II]

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117.

[Gurren Lagann]

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118.

[Fringe]

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119.

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120.

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121.

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122.

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

[Psychonauts]

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128.

[Avatar]

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129. [broken]

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130.

[Ashes to Ashes, Shaz Granger]

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131.

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132.

[Code Geass, C.C.]

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133.

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134.

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135.

[Whitest Kids U' Know]

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136.

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137.

[Nabari no Ou]

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138.

[Kamen Rider Kiva]

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139.

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

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145.

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146.

[BoA]

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147.

[QI, Jeremy Clarkson, Sean Lock]

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148.

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149.

[Resized]

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150.

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151.

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152.

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153.

[Star Trek]

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154.

[Fast and the Furious]

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155.

[I suggest Kamina]

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156.

[Code Geass]

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157.

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158.

[Ken Russell's The Devils, Father Barre]

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159.

[Supernatural]

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160.

[Avatar]

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161.

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162.

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163.

[Stephen Colbert/Kathleen Parker]

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164.

[Death Note]

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165.

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166.

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/com (com link to get more buildings!)

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #094.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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That's because episode 26 wasn't about their "deepest inner desires", probably. It was about them recognizing the infinite possibilities of this Universe, it was about them losing themselves in consciousness.

No, it was about what they really wanted. Simon wanted a Kamina that would never get killed and leave him alone, even if it meant that "Kamina" was a craven coward, but it wasn't what he needed. Gurren Lagann being all about "choice", the point of those sequences was to give people the things they thought would make them happy, and then have them make the choice to put that aside and do the right thing.

And we indeed get a perfectly clear sense of what Simon and Nia mean to each other. Simon finds purpose in Nia. He is just a digger, without much direction. Nia gives him something to fight for. Nia finds validation, she finds something to make concrete her ethereal and senseless existence.

Validation of what? I can buy what Simon gets out of a relationship with Nia, but every justification I've ever seen of what Nia gets out of it very vague, probably because the series chose not to focus on her as a character for a very large chunk, and tended to use her as a plot device instead.

As for the second paragraph, Simon and Nia have plenty of actual characterization. Just because it wasn't delivered in concrete exposition it doesn't mean it isn't there. They use visuals and actions to make a point, you know.

If I wasn't including "visuals and actions", I don't think I'd be able to count Nia and Simon as a couple at all. Simon and Nia looking off in the distance together makes a lovely "picture", but it doesn't tie them to the viewer on concrete level.

Response to first paragraph: Except the writer have come out to say that the sequence in episode 26 was about possibilities. It's about how you can lose yourself through recognition. Simon took life by his own hands, he decided to be himself. That's why it was an alternative universe and not a simple dream sequence. Gurren-Lagann is a show about "act or not to act". Characters aren't given a choice, characters are given an opportunity. They are who they are, in their hands is only the decision to fight or to run away.

2nd paragraph: To validate her own existence. Nia was infatuated by the love he imprinted into the Kamina statues; she thought they were the definition of "human". Simon made Nia able to accept herself as herself. The show focused enough on her character, with expressions and body language that say plenty about her thought-processes and feelings.

3rd paragraph: And "visuals" include the expressions of the cast members. Nia's look of pain when confronting Genome in episode 15, her melancholic look in episode 17, the way in which she reacts to Lord Genome in episode 27... it's the animated equivalent of "acting". Cartoon characters talk too much, Gurren-Lagann tries to not fall prey of this mistake.

They are who they are, in their hands is only the decision to fight or to run away.

How is this not "choice"?

Simon made Nia able to accept herself as herself.

Where were we shown her conflict with "accepting herself"?

And "visuals" include the expressions of the cast members.

Which...negates nothing I said. If I can't connect to the reason Nia is frowning or looks melancholy, then it's just a nuanced picture.

In episode 11, maybe. She decides to believe in Simon in order to validate her own existence. She calls herself a worthless doll, but she declares that even as a worthless doll she can still believe in Simon just like Simon believes in Kamina. Because that's what makes their lives worth living, that's what will make her a human. After Simon saves her, Nia breaks crying because her status as a person was proven. Even as a worthless doll, she still has something to fight for.

And visuals are the means to tell the story. You don't need exposition to understand the characters. You must read between lines. Shameless introspection is the reason anime is becoming so lazy nowadays.

Episode 11 is a good point.

And visuals are the means to tell the story. You don't need exposition to understand the characters. You must read between lines.

Sigh.

Anime is anime for a reason. Anime uses visuals to tell the story, dialog is just a secondary necessity. Body language, visual design and the overall composition of a scene is the key to good characterization.

Yes, I am well aware of the importance visual direction plays in a visual medium. Please condescend to me a little more, I'm not sure I got it the last three times.

Validation of what? I can buy what Simon gets out of a relationship with Nia, but every justification I've ever seen of what Nia gets out of it very vague, probably because the series chose not to focus on her as a character for a very large chunk, and tended to use her as a plot device instead.

I'd suggest rewatching episode 11, as it's a good character development episode for Nia as well as Simon and sets up the basic points of their relationship. When Nia is told that she was created as a doll, she learns that her father, the one person who she loved and trusted, never meant for her to be her own person. But because of the things she learned while around the humans, she stands up to Guame anyway and decides to believe in Simon. Then minutes later, Simon shows up to save her, validating her belief, and tells her that no matter her past, she should live as herself. So when her father failed her and her statis as a person was put to question, Simon gave her something to believe in and valued her as an individual. Those same themes are also repeated in the second half of the story.

Yes, Simon accepting Nia's right to be her own person and therefore make her own decisions is the keystone of their relationship, and I've never said otherwise. But all of this is on "meta" level, which doesn't really have much to do with the ins and outs of a "romance". Simon and Nia could have meant the same thing to one another without romance ever coming into play, so it's not that I have an issue with the way their relationship was expressed in the series--but as a romance between two people, it lacks because there is no real sense of union.

That's because Nia was the only living individual Simon was comfortable with. Simon is not a very social individual, he prefers solitude and the simple things in life to glory or partying or being president of the world. Nia appreciated his more gentle-side, valuing Simon beyond this grand hero and protector everyone else admired him for. She enjoyed to watch him craft statues, she loved his flaws and public awkwardness.

That's because Nia was the only living individual Simon was comfortable with.

...okay!

There's a reason he liked to be alone thought the show. He was never with everyone else on the jokes(episode 12), he liked to watch the clouds by himself(episode 13), he liked to be in his office by himself rather than to go partying or hanging out with the rest of gang and after Nia died he decided to leave Kamina City because even if they were his dear friends he never felt any desire to be close to them.

I guess the pairing just doesn't fit your tastes then, because I saw plenty that indicated a romance just in the 2nd arc. :/ They had chemistry, they were happy together, there was mutual blushing, signs of affection, etc. And the scene of them in the cockpit at the end of episode 15 showed that they would probably continue to grow closer in the future.

"chemistry"

Keyword. Chemistry is something 100% subjective. Chemistry is the key to romance. Chemistry is something that can't be measured objectively.

I think the problem I have with it, in the end, is that GL is ultimately too carefully constructed for me to buy the romances as romances. I mean, I saw visual cues, like you did. It's not like I was flummoxed that they ended up engaged, it's just...well, it was basically about the "idea of love" and less about love as it happens between two people, messiness and awkwardness that comes as part and parcel.

Nia and Simon were always slightly too compatible, slightly too "SOULMATE HAS APPEARED" for me to be invested in them. It came across as plastic to me.

I thought they had messiness and innocence going on. They valued their time together and it worked because enjoying each other is what love is all about. The scene in episode 27 after they defeat the Anti-Spiral where they are content to just lay together without doing nothing other than being with each other is to me what epitomizes their relationship.

When did Nia and Simon's love ever cause personal problems between the two of them? When did they ever "misunderstand" one another, or hurt one another? Those are part of being in love with someone.

Nia is not the type of person to ever be in a personal struggle against someone, actually.

Exactly.

Episode 10 and the proposal scene come to mind.

Episode 10 framed it more between Youko and Nia than Nia and Simon. Likewise, Simon's pain at the end isn't because of anything Nia did, but because of his unresolved "aniki" issues. Nia is presenting an alternate perspective, but it's not creating a clash between her and Simon. And then you have the fact that I'd hesitate to call their relationship "love" at this point in time.

The proposal was more like culture clash. Once Nia understood the concept, she was perfectly willing to accept his proposal. It wasn't an issue that came about because of their love, but Nia's imperfect understanding of customs.

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[ SECRET POST #658 ]

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