fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #661 ]

⌈ Secret Post #661 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Pennie and Aggie]

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103.

[Death Note]

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104.

[Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei]

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105.

[Princess Tutu]

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106.

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107.

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108.

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109.

[Swat Kats]

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110.

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111.

[Hockey; Montreal Canadiens; Andre and Sergei Kostitsyn]

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112.

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

[House]

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117.

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118.

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119.

[Detroit Metal City]

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120.

[Sailor Moon Musical]

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121.

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122.

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127. [repeat]

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128.

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129.

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130.

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131.

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132.

[Disgaea: Hour of Darkness]

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133.

[[Death Note (live action);Soichiro Yagami/L]]

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134.

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135.

[Toradora; Taiga Aisaka]

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136.

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137.

[South Park]

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138.

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139.

(Petshop of Horrors, Hellsing)

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

[torchwood, doctor who]

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144.

[Supernatural]

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145.

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146.

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147.

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148.

[Noein]

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149.

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150.

[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]

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151.

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/com

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 240 secrets from Secret Submission Post #095.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

As a rule, I think it's not right to make money, any money, off of the intellectual property of others.

You can feel this way, and it's an understandable way to feel, but it's a hazier issue than that. Many creators' work is technically owned by a larger company that had nothing to do with its production (Marvel, Disney, Viacom, take your pick) and if that creator happened to have a lousy contract (many do) they could very well make absolutely NO residuals on money made from that IP.

Let's say that Comic Creator Mike sold his first book to Comic Company X. Mike spends two years of his life singlehandedly drawing and writing and lettering this book, and is paid a flat fee to do so -- a few thousand dollars, maybe. Because he's an unknown, Mike signs a contract that dictates that his book -- his intellectual property -- is now going to be owned by CC X. Mike gets his few thousand dollars when the book is completed, but it doesn't belong to him anymore, even though it's entirely his creation.

That means that if he draws pinups of his original characters, or draws and sells another short comic about them, or makes shirts, or really, does ANYTHING in which he profits from the work he created beyond what CC X gave to him, what he's doing is technically illegal. And according to the statement quoted above, it's also WRONG.

I'm not saying there isn't a world of difference between Mike and your typical fan artist. I'm just saying it's a murky issue, and trying to simplify it with statements like that doesn't reflect the realities of the business or how it works.

Edited 2008-10-27 22:01 (UTC)

If there is any noticeable difference to be seen, then I don't think the issue is really all that murky. It doesn't have to hang all on a technicality either, because, as you say, the fan artist isn't Mike. 'Legal' doesn't necessarily equate to 'ethical'. Truly, it comes down to how you make peace with yourself, and if you're honestly okay with selling fan art then you should have peace of mind. I'm just trying to point out the fact that other people, myself included, do not feel this way - but that is to be expected.

I will say, though, that from the beginning I did not want to bring legality into the debate, because that's truly a hazy issue. The hypothetical situation you gave makes for a good thought exercise - how should the creative artists approach issues of contracts and copyrights in order to protect themselves and their works? How should lawmakers decide on policies knowing that problems like this exist?

In the end, all that is mostly unrelated to what we're discussing, because regardless of the contracts drawn up between the creators and whatever corporations they sell their works to, what the fan artists are doing is still markedly illegal - and unethical, at least according to me.

I suppose what I'm saying, in part, is that there's a wide wide range of situations involved in this, some of which are more clear cut than others. And I'll admit it irritates me, personally, how people act as if it's a simple question of right and wrong.

Here's another, perhaps more targeted hypothetical for you:

Let's say I draw a series of illustrations from The Hobbit, and another from Pride and Prejudice. Both are books that I didn't write, the creators of both of them are long dead, but one is in the public domain, and the other isn't -- Tolkien's heirs still control those copyrights. Now, the way things are going (ie the way certain companies keep manipulating the system) there's a chance that 100 years from now Tolkien's family will STILL own that copyright, and it would still technically be illegal for me to sell those pinups (in this magical world, I am still alive and attending conventions.)

Now, if you think that my selling those P&P pinups is also wrong, then I don't really have anything to say to you. But if you don't -- why isn't it wrong? Because that work is in the public domain? But Tolkien is just as dead as Austin is, and Austin no doubt has decedents who would love to be profiting from all these adaptations of her work -- Austin's just been dead LONGER, and copyright law happens to have changed in the time between when Austin and Tolkien were writing their books.

So what determines morality? The creator being alive? But not all creators even own their own work, as I said in my last comment. Then is it the amount of time that's passed? Right now, current copyrights extend back to the 1920s....so if something was created in 1910 it's okay for me to sell fanart of it, but not if it was created in 1930?

I'm not saying that you're wrong for personally having a problem with this and personally not wanting to engage in it. I'm saying I raise my eyebrows at declaring things "unethical" when there's SUCH a huge gray area involved.

Those are good points. You will agree, at least, that someone who does have a problem with the sales of fan art can consider the activity to be ethically questionable, keeping in mind this grey area that exists. There was only so much I could fit into the original secret without becoming excessively wordy - but that's what the comment threads are for.

In any case, keeping legality out of the debate, I think it still comes down to what you feel is right for you, personally. If you can truly justify selling fan art of works whose creators are still alive and capable of protest the same way that people justify making use of ideas that have over time come the public domain, then you can plow on ahead until the law says you can't. The contingent of the fandom who feel otherwise will continue to, because we cannot make the same justification.

Then we shall agree to disagree. Though I would thank you, particularly, for being reasonable -- having been subjected to some condescending internet mudslinging a few days ago, I'm thankful for your levelheadedness, even within the context of anonymity.

[ SECRET POST #661 ]

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