[ SECRET POST #4701 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4701 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 22 secrets from Secret Submission Post #673.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Original Comment OP

[ninefox]

1) I honestly think you're wrong, but I also don't think anything has to be the best way of doing something literary to have more than "no relation" to literary quality. That's a very strong claim, and that's what I object to most. "I think open world video games are better or more engaging than some dry or clunky books" does not equal "worldbuilding has no relation to literary quality".

2) You're missing my point about Aasimov entirely. MOST of his writing is mediocre, but his books still have literary value, specifically because of the worldbuilding. That can be true even if you personally don't enjoy them. (And THAT can be true without denying that there are overrated classics.)

3) My definition of worldbuilding is between the two extremes of "everything is a perfect Sanderson puzzlebox" and "any setting". Not every setting is a world. But Rowling does create something that feels like a world, that has depth and breadth and texture that works together and feels like a real, coherent place, even if the way it works together is more by tone and resonance than by raw mathematically calculation. For a totally different example, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thought Mad Max: Fury Road didn't have excellent worldbuilding - but almost all of that was done with prop design and there's almost nothing that's explicit enough to check in the rigorous-pedant way.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT: If you look up worldbuilding advice for fledgling writers, you'll see tons and tons and tons of articles saying that one needs to commit an entire novella worth of trivia like "what are the names of the constellations in your world" and "name every denomination of currency" before one even addresses things like conflict and character. The world according to worldbuilding advocates needs to be independently credible.

Generally I think that's a bad way of thinking about SFF, which is driven by big specultive thought experiments. Using Foundation as a good example of a priori worldbuilding strikes me as weird because Asimov changed the rules as he developed his original thesis. So did Tolkien and Le Guin. I'd go further and say that if you don't find the cracks in your world through developing it, you're proabably not being speculative enough.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

In fact, I'd say the problem with the Wizarding World is that it's centered on class and ethnic conflicts from a particular U.K. perspective and gets very fragile when you try to look beyond that perspective.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

You need those notes and stuff otherwise it feels shallow as a world.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't think that's actually true.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

In what way is the price of tea in China essential to a story about a man in a space suit on Enceladus waiting for medical evacuation?

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

SA: The short story Nesting Habits of Enceladan Jade Beetles does have a lot of setting detail. However every single detail about the setting is:

1. Relevant to the impending breakup of the primary character's relationship, or
2. Establishes the labor and risks of doing ecological assessment of a non-sentient species on a moon of Saturn.

Most worldbuilding advice is a wild goose chase at best, or at worst, active gatekeeping.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

Oh so you're one of those people. Sorry, I'm not gonna have this convo, since it's clear you think having a clear and concise world behind your story and not a slapdash mess is A-OK.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

Not at all what I wrote, but you do you.

The key words there are "clear and concise" and "not a slapdash mess." Stories need to be thoroughly and exquisitely researched and developed. But you can't know how to do that unless you know what your story is about. If you're going to build your story around, oh, (goes to Wikipedia Roulette) The University of Leeds, you need to cultivate a deep understanding of the The University of Leeds. You probably don't need to cultivate an equally deep understanding of the history of Russian aviation, the Ruthenian Peasants Party, or the AD-AS Model.

If you follow any of the "worldbuilding" questionnaires pushed onto fledgling writers you'll end up wasting a lot of time answering questions that are not remotely applicable to your story. And characters and settings that come out of a workbook are not credible.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

For example, "Passing Strange" won WFA, Spectrum, and BFA in 2018, in part because of meticulous research into lesbian culture in San Fransisco in the early 40s. But if you go by any of the worldbuilding guidelines thrown around, it's rubbish because it spends more time on the legal standards to avoid getting prosecuted as a cross-dresser than the military technology of the period.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

Having "a clear and concise world" behind your story is usually largely irrelevant to the literary and artistic requirements of the story, and often a distraction from those aspects of the story. Having an understanding of the aesthetic details of your setting and the details of your plot is, of course, very important. But I don't think that necessitates "a clear and concise world". Definitely not in the sense understood by advocates of worldbuilding.

Re: Original Comment OP

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed, and the importance of military matters on these checklists is a big tell about what kind of SFF is expected as a result.