fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #665 ]

[ SECRET POST #665 ]

⌈ Secret Post #665 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Ecstasy by Irvine Welsh]

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103.

[Philip Quast, Cleopatra]

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104.

[Hell's Kitchen]

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105.

[Tin Man]

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106.

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107.

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108.

[Waldo/Carmen]

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109.

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110.

[Code Geass]

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111.

[Cowboy Bebop, Spike/Vicious]

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112.

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113.

[The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou]

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114.

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115.

[NOT a repeat; was resized]

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116.

[Andy Samberg/Mark Wahlberg, SNL]

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117.

[CSI: NY, Yugioh]

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118.

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119.

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120.

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121.

[ER]

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122.

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123.

[William Fichtner]

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124.

[Yugioh GX]

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125.

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126.

[Jeeves&Wooster]

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127.

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128.

[Tantei Gakuen Q / Detective Academy Q]

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129.

[batman RP]

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130.

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]

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131.

[Axis Powers Hetalia]

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132.

[Transformers]

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133.

[Boku no Pico]

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134.

[The Podge & Rodge Show]

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136.

http://i33.tinypic.com/24fxtdz.jpg
[Ron Weasley/Rupert Grint > Draco Malfoy/Tom Felton; LOL]

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137.

[Stargate: Atlantis]

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138. [repeat]

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139.

[Supernatural]

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141.

[Babylon 5]

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144. [repeat]

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147.

[Yakitate!! Japan, Summire 16 Sai!!, Addicted to curry]

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151.

[Blue Beetle (Paco) and Avatar (Sokka)]

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/com

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #095.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Is it true that there are Americans who speak no language other than English? Is that because they failed to learn it or is it actually possible to get through American education with only one language?

The mere thought puzzles me because in Finnish schools everyone needs to learn at least three languages: Finnish, Swedish and a foreign language, usually English. Many take other languages on top of that. I started Swedish in 3rd grade and and English in 7th, but chose not to take extras in high school for fear of flunking Swedish if I did. Most of my friends took German or French then. Later on, I studied Japanese for a couple of years and thought of taking Latin, but decided that the introductory course was enough for me. I still plan on learning German one day, and hopefully some Korean. I just can't understand how people could be happy with knowing just one language. Don't they like to travel or enjoy foreign books/movies/series in their original language? O_o Maybe if they've only watched dubbed stuff they can't tell how screwed up many translations actually are; it's easier to see with subtitled shows. It was my main motivation for taking English seriously and the reason why I wanted to study Japanese; I want the original, not a game of Chinese Whispers.

Even Canadian students don't need to be fluent in a second language, though we do have many French courses available and it's compulsory until grade 9.

Well it's not like all Finns are fluent in three or more languages, either; it's enough to pass the courses. ;) I studied Swedish for 10 years and hated nearly every moment of it, so I doubt I could order food with my skills. I understand a lot, though; it's just my active use that's very much lacking. Especially after I started Japanese; the last time I was in Sweden and had to ask for help in a store, I almost started speaking Japanese. It's a good thing that most clerks in the stores in Haparanda speak Finnish!

Here both Swedish and a foreign language are compulsory through high school or other post 9th grade education. In the university people need to take a course or two of both Swedish and a foreign language. For language majors (e.g. English philology) they also need basic and advanced studies in another foreign language, which usually means a minimum of 1,5 years of study. However, if they've taken an extra language in high school, it's possible to just take a test to prove that they speak it well enough.

I have to say that I am seriously jealous. Speaking as a Canadian who speaks sketchy French, is studying Japanese and has a cursory knowledge of German - I only WISH my school had even offered that kind of material. I was in French Immersion for seven years - I lived in a small town, so if you wanted to learn a third language, Spanish became available in 9th grade. They used to teach German at the highschool but they cut it for budget reasons - and *forget* about trying to learn any Asian languages, pbff. Now I'm in university and I want to minor in Linguistics and cram in as many languages as I can... and I can't help but really, really wish I could have learned this stuff younger. Once I tried my hand at getting into languages, it was like only just realizing I've been missing an arm all my life or something. BAWW.

I've heard about schools in Europe placing more emphasis on languages - or not even just schools, but the environment in general means you can't help but learn multiple languages. I'd hazard that smaller-sized countries (geographically speaking) are probably the big reason why language is more valued - you've got more languages in a smaller space, whereas here it's English-speaking from the polar bears to Florida. It's really depressing, I gotta say.

/blabblabgush but really. I think it's awesome that you can wrangle your way around so many languages, even if you're not fluent in all of them. :P

Well, usually it's only French and German on offer for other languages; bigger schools may have Spanish. I haven't seen Japanese anywhere besides the university and one of those schools that have lessons in the evenings, where you can just take one course and pay for it. The university here has a rather nice selection; I think that they've got also Italian and Russian, at least. No Chinese or Korean, though; a friend had to study Chinese someplace else. The Helsinki university probably has an even wider selection.

Yeah, I'm sure that every European has experienced the alien feeling of not having any idea what the people around them are saying. ;) Going to Italy was really creepy because I don't speak the language at all. It's also common to have tv series etc from other European countries and at least in Finland we don't dub them, so it shows people why it might be good to learn other languages. I grew up watching German police series and picked up some phrases from there.

Good luck with your studies! :)

Why is it that you have to learn Swedish? I'm from Sweden and I had no idea you had to. I mean, I can understand perhaps having basic knowledge, but 10 years..! Especially if you don't like it ;) That's basically how long we have mandatory English, along with at least 4 years of a third language (Spanish/German/French). I'm quite puzzled. But in the end you win, because you can leave school with four languages in you backpack. :)

It's an official language in Finland thanks to the time we spent under Sweden's control, so everyone must speak it. Most people start it in 7th grade, though, (English in 3rd) so it's more like 6 years and maybe a random course or two afterwards. There's been a lot of talk about making it optional for the high school final exams because lots of people have failed because of it. I'm not sure what the situation at the moment is; I think they made the exam optional, but everyone still needs to take the courses.

As a product of the American school system, I assure you that no; we aren't required to any language outside English. Thinking about it in light of the post above, yes, it may well be due to an attitude of superiority that's entirely undeserved. ^.^ ;;

In middle school (approximately Seventh grade as you mentioned) students are offered French or Spanish, but that's all, at least in the districts where I went.

Since very young children absorb language instinctively, it seems to me that American Educators should reconsider their curriculum and make a second language compulsory from First Grade.

Well, it's true that in most places you go to you can probably find someone who speaks English, but it's still kind of silly. Everyone should know at least one language other than their own! There are lots of Spanish-speakers in USA, right? That might be useful, at least, if people have problems learning languages just because it's fun.

First grade is too early for everyone to have it, I believe. Some kids can handle it, but with some it may hinder their learning of their native language. I think that the 3rd grade used in Finland is an ok time to start a second language. Some schools nowadays also offer the chance to take a third one on 5th grade. A friend has taught her kids to be somewhat bilingual (or even trilingual?) from when they were kids; they went to an international nursery. That seemed to work well for them, but I'm not sure it would for everyone. Said friend herself grew up in a multilingual environment, as her parents were a Swedish and an Italian person living in Finland. :)

Agreed, it's more than silly, it puts Americans at a distinct disadvantage, imo.

The reason I purported First Grade versus the Third is because scientific studies agree that the human brain learns language almost effortlessly around age two. I think you're friend's children are a perfect example of what kids can do given the right stimulation at the proper age.

Having said that, I deplore the cookie-cutter method of the education system. I suppose I should say locally (as anon below has so noted). The fact is that America doesn't budget enough money into Education, and recently Schools have had to cut back on their Art Programs and such.

Back to the point. Should some children be initially unable to sort out being taught bilingually, I'd love to see them given extra time and help until they catch on because I believe that much, much more often than not, children can learn.

ETA: Sorry for any confusion regarding my first icon there. It was supposed to portray my disgust at the American School System in general).

Edited 2008-11-02 18:12 (UTC)

Some school districts offer more than just French and Spanish. Mine offered Latin and another that I'm drawing a blank on. My niece who is in high school now also had Russian (which she was in for a while) and Japanese. Mandarin is actually becoming more commonly taught in schools. It is entirely dependent on the locality, since they are not federally mandated. It's unfortunate to generalize all Americans and all american schools based on a handful.

With all due respect, Anon, I think you may have missed the point of my comment.

If there is a district where languages other than English are compulsory in Elementary school, then please relieve me of my ignorance. The fact that it isn't Federally mandated for American students to learn a second language was the main statement I made.

Thank you; however, for clarifying (perhaps for others?) that districts is synonymous with localities in this context.

I didn't miss the point of your comment. I replied to the wrong comment! Oops! I apologize. I actually agreed completely with your post.

Yes, it's true. Americans are actually pretty famous for that. And while officially, most are taught a second language in high school (very few schools start earlier than that) the program is mediocre and often theoretical to the point that you can take two or three years of Spanish / French / German without really being able to use them at all. Getting any other language, especially Arabic, Japanese, or Russian, is almost impossible. My brother lived abroad, and wanted to get credit for taking two semesters of Arabic. It took the counselor the better part of a year to figure out how to do that! No, honestly, you can get a high school diploma in this country without taking any language other than English. Most kids who want to go to college take a couple of years of something else, but hardly ever with the expectation of ... say, going to college in another country or leaving the US for good. They're incredibly limited. When I was in high school, I looked into the possibility of studying in Europe after I graduated. I was the only one in my entire school who did so.

What you have to keep in mind is that the US is a very large country (you can travel quite a bit without ever crossing its borders), and a depressingly ignorant one. Many Americans are still laboring under the impression that they live in the best country on Earth! And many are reluctant to venture out into the rest of the world. The wealthy traditionally frequented Western Europe (no offense) so that's not considered as strange and foreign. Central and South America have also been gaining popularity. Business travel and military deployment also have a way of getting otherwise insular Americans to look beyond their borders, but with mixed results. I am sooo jealous of the way you were taught languages. My family is from elsewhere, so I am functionally bilingual. But I haven't really picked up another language since I was five. And in the US, that was considered weird enough.

That sounds strange. Here the approach is certainly practical (except possibly in Latin and ancient Greek, I guess) and focuses on things like ordering food in a restaurant and so on in the basic studies. The advanced studies get a bit more complicated.

Yeah, I guess so. :) If you're really interested, you can always study on your own, if you don't have the chance to do otherwise. Since you mentioned Japanese, you could try the Japanese for Today series. I've seen one book from some older version and it seemed pretty good. There are also lots of guides online. :) This game (https://www.msu.edu/~lakejess/kanjigame.html) is also fun; I learned many kanji via it before I actually started Japanese. Many of them look like the thing they represent; tree looks like a tree and so on.

Thanks for the link. I actually am studying on my own. Although my brain is still confused and incredulous at my sudden interest in another language, as I haven't picked one up in years. I'm working hard and advancing, but I recs and links are very appreciated.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #665 ]

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