[ SECRET POST #4749 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4749 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.
[Dracula (the upcoming 2020 series)]


__________________________________________________



03.
[Letter Bee]


__________________________________________________



04.
[The Untamed]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Queer Eye, S01 E03 "Dega Don't"]


__________________________________________________



06.
[The Witcher]


__________________________________________________



07.
[RWBY]


__________________________________________________



08.
[The Last Airbender]















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #680.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Inspired by 8

[philstar22]

But there is some media where if you don't recognize that it has problems and just like it in spite of that, there is a good chance you have other, real life issues going on. Movies that are overtly racist, sexist etc. or where the whole point is violence and gore. Liking them in spite of the problems is different than liking them and saying they don't have problems at all. If you Like Birth of a Nation full stop and don't see any problem with it, I think it is fairly safe to assume you might be racist in real life.

Re: Inspired by 8

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, but that usually leaks out in other ways.

And one can appreciate a work of art and disagree with its politics or philosophy. I'm not a Christian, but I can appreciate 90% of Western art. I'm not Heathen or Hellenic but I can enjoy Beowulf and sacred Greek drama. I have problems with masculinity, but I can appreciate mid-century litfic. I think Tolkien is fundamentally wrong about the theological foundations of Lord of the Rings, but it's a brilliant (and frequently misread) work of fantasy.

"Is there any particular piece of media that would genuinely cause you to question a person's judgment if they believed it was good?"

Believing something is good does not equal blind adoration. I'm puzzled why you're confused on this point.

Re: Inspired by 8

[philstar22]

What defines good? I'd say if someone says a movie is good with no caveats that has some core problems like racism, then I might question their judgment. If they say "this is good, but" or "good in spite of" then that's different and I wouldn't see the same issue.

Re: Inspired by 8

[(Anonymous)]

Over 500 years of Western culture has some core problems like racism, including the franchise represented in your avatar photo. We can take the nihilist response of rejecting everything, or we can take the critical response of treating art like a dialogue and conversation where we're free to say, "Hey, you make good points, and express them beautifully, but you're wrong."

"This is good" is an invitation to a dialogue. I invite you to take the time to listen, talk, and argue with the work. "This is good," means that I think this work is worth your time. If we're friends, "this is good" means that I'm making a guess that this work might be to your taste. And then you can come to your own conclusions, and our disagreements will make interesting conversations.

But I honestly don't see the value in demanding caveats when everything is problematic in different ways. My caveats might not be the same as your caveats, and unless we know each other intimately well, we can't anticipate that.

Re: Inspired by 8

[philstar22]

I'm not talking about subtle racism/sexism or the typical racism/sexism that is pretty difficult to avoid in media. I'm talking "Birth of a Nation" level of overt racism that is right there front and center and is at least a large point of why the creators created the media in the first place. Someone likes something like that without even qualifying it, yes I'm going to to think they at least think that racism in media isn't a big deal when we're talking about something that blatant and where the creators were trying to get a racist message across.

I'm also not suggesting rejecting anything, I'm suggesting making it clear that there are issues and we recognize that there are issues that at least need to be talked about. I actually think "this is good" without caveats or further discussion/clarification shuts down conversation. It doesn't allow room for the sort of discussion that is necessary for any form of racism (sexism, etc.), whether subtle or overt, and makes it harder for those who are affected to actually be able to speak up about why that piece of media is affecting them. It is good isn't really a discussion unless the person speaks about why they think it is good and unless they leave room for others to talk about why they disagree.

Re: Inspired by 8

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's a cop-out. It's the subtle stuff that contributes the most to workplace bias, educational bias, and minority stress. And Disney's track record in this area hasn't been subtle at all. But what gives me a bad day goes over the heads of most straight people, so I can't really expect them to do "caveats" for stories where everyone is given a nohomo moment.

And I just wrote that my recs come in the context of broad discussions and conversations about media. You're just being argumentative, and I'm not obligated to continue a discussion on those terms.

Re: Inspired by 8

[philstar22]

And that's fine. I will point out that if, as you say, your recs come in the context of discussions and conversation of media, you aren't what I was talking about in my original comment. I was talking about a specific issue which doesn't cover any of the things you are talking about, and you're the one who wanted to make it broader to cover something else and then argue against that other thing that I was never talking about.

Re: Inspired by 8

[(Anonymous)]

You didn't make the original comment I responded to, asshole.