fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #687 ]

⌈ Secret Post #687 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Life on Mars]

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[Twilight]

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[Bones]

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106. [not fandom]

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[ET]

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[Twilight]

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[Dragonball]

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[Lovers in 1K Apartment]

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[Eyeshield 21]

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[Terranigma]

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[train wreck syndrome]

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[Fushigi Yuugi]

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[Pushing Daisies]

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 19 pages, 459 secrets from Secret Submission Post #099.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So, question.

If you said something like, "He pulled off an amazing coup d'etat" would you say it like, "he pulled off an amazing coop de etaht?" or would you say it, "he pulled off an amazing cou d'etah"?

Or Hors d'ouvres or anything else like that?

Different words are adopted into the language differently. Sometimes the words are adopted with the pronunciation staying mostly the same as the original word and other times they're not. ("Hors d'ouvres" is actually an interesting example because we DON'T pronounce it exactly the French way, as we don't use the French r. :P). It's all about how the words fit into the phonology of English.

To contrast with your examples, "visage" is a French word but we definitely do NOT pronounce it the French way - we say "VIHS-ige", not "vih-SAHGE" (Forgive me if these representations of the sounds are off, it's hard to describe without IPA xD)

Oh, it's pronounced "VIHS-ige" in English? I always pronounced it "vih-SAHGE".

Admittedly, that was probably a bad example. :P "visage" COULD be pronounced both ways in English I suppose, just in my variant it's pronounced "VIHS-ige".

A better example would have been "dormant", which is an example of both pronunciation AND meaning change when adapted into English. In English it's pronounced "DOOR-mint", but in French it's pronounced "dor-MAH", with the "MAH" being a nasal vowel... and in English we never have nasal vowels without an "m" or "n" following it. So I'm pretty sure if you say it the French way in an English sentences you'd get a LOT of blank stares haha.

It doesn't work for ALL words, but as we(I can only assume that most people here are from North American) are in a culture where languages often come together and become part of our language, words are bound to change as time goes on. For example, "angst" is generally pronounced "ang-st," when it's actually supposed to be "ahng-st." If I told people that I was "ahngsting," they would not have any idea what I was talking about. If I told people in a bookstore I was looking for Ya-o-ee, they would probably think I was looking for an author, not a type of comic (if they even knew what yaoi was).

To each their own though.

No, because regardless of spelling, "coup d'etat" and "hors d'ouvres" still use phonetic consonant/vowel combinations that are perfectly natural in English. "Yaoi" doesn't.

--and the above commenters said it better than me while I was distracted with the comment box open!

Edited 2008-11-22 22:58 (UTC)

Also, French and English, along with all other Western languages (sans Basque) originated from the same language--Sanskrit. Japanese and other languages do not. Therefore, it will be adopted differently. Though, there are several loan words that are not adopted exactly--for example, bratwurst. Most English-speakers I hear pronounce it "brot-worst", when it should be something more like "broht-verstd" (I'm not great with writing out pronunciations, but the point I'm trying to make is that the German w, pronounced like a v, and the German t, pronounced more like a dt, are lost). Similarly, dachshund--most pronunciations I hear practically omit the German u, resulting in something more like "nd" rather than "hund".

Edited 2008-11-22 23:14 (UTC)

[linguistic_wank]

It would be more accurate to say that all of the ancestor languages of the Western languages, including Sanskrit, evolved from Proto-Indo-European. Sanskrit, the original Celtic tongue, and Hellenic (the ancestor of Classical Greek) were all roughly contemporaneous, IIRC.

[/linguistic_wank]

Oh, I'll take your word for it. I've never taken a linguistics class--I just learned that most Western languages stemmed at least partially from Sanskrit in my Asian Philosophy and Religion class, but that was only when we were discussing pronunciation and spelling of Sanskrit words. I'll admit I don't know too much about linguistics--I'm but a young psych major!

Do you say "foo tahn" or "fhoo tone" for futon? I'm pretty damn sure most English speakers go with the former. I personally only use the latter when I'm speaking, you guessed it, in Japanese.

[ SECRET POST #687 ]

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