Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-11-24 04:41 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-11-24 04:41 pm
[ SECRET POST #689 ]
⌈ Secret Post #689 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[TV Tropes, Code Geass]
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[Ace Attorney, Trauma Center]
Notes:
CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/
Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 316 secrets from Secret Submission Post #099.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Protip:
Though really, looking at the last few episodes, Kataang didn't really seem to fit perfectly the way they portrayed it. I would have been happy with it if it had fit, hell I was planning a Zutara fanfic and just the way it was developing made me want Aang to get to be with Katara, but I'm not satisfied to the build up of the ending, not from a shipping point of view. That's why I'd say I'm not anti-Kataang, but just the ending was... unsatisfying. Haha, based on this comment you'd probably be able to guess why! I see conflict as a way for characters to grow together, then instead of 'solving' the Kataang conflict from Ember Island Players, they just kind of swept it under the rug. Also, just from a story-telling point of view, it works better to have characters spend time with each other, in conflict, or overcoming conflict, to give the audience a strong bond between them. If you look at Katara's conflicts in the first half of season 3, she overcame them herself or with Toph (in the case of The Runaway). Then TSR she had a conflict with Zuko, and a conflict she worked through with Zuko. EIP, she had a conflict with Aang, but they never worked through it (as far as we know, ultimately a bit of my problem with Maiko). In the finale, her conflicts were focused on Zuko again... If you feed on conflicts like I do, it's not hard to see it as plausible.
Re: Protip:
Characters that argue are not the same as characters who try to kill eachother and intimidate one another. It's a false analogy.
I always ship the two characters with the most dynamic interaction, assuming that it's not absolutely hate-hate or bending sexuality in a way I can't see it.
But it was hate-hate. Or at least hate-neutrality. Katara genuinely hated Zuko for the vast majority of the show.
I see conflict as a way for characters to grow together, then instead of 'solving' the Kataang conflict from Ember Island Players, they just kind of swept it under the rug.
I think the conflict was mostly contrived for the sake of suspense, but maybe that's just me.
If you feed on conflicts like I do, it's not hard to see it as plausible.
Again: Plausible as a couple != plausible as a canon couple.
Can I ask what you saw wrong with Maiko if you are so into conflict?
Re: Protip:
Yes, up until the season 2 finale it was absolutely hate-hate or dislike-dislike and I saw it as crack, good crack, but crack. ;) In the season 2 finale they did have a personal relationship beyond the battlefield, it didn't end well at that point, but it did set the stage properly for them to have some sort of relationship. In WAT, Katara showed that she definitely took it personally, and in TSR Zuko was willing to do something to personally make it up to her. A good amount of time was spent on what they personally thought of each other, so it's natural to assume that it would be an important element.
You hit the nail on the head, EIP was just contrived conflict, and it just seemed cheap.
For Maiko, for most of season 3, they had a teen relationship in the 'I don't hate you' kind of way; no passion. That's pretty much it... I'd rather see a 'couple' have a conflict to the 'I hate you' level, then to just be sort of together for the sake of being together. Also, it kind of annoys me that they had the development for it in the comic... it doesn't seem right that you'd introduce your main couple through something only 10% of the fandom would see. *shrugs* That's more the first half and I'm fine with it there. Mai did gain a lot of respect from me in TBR, but I didn't get to see her thought process... I would have loved to see Zuko tell her that everything they were raised on was a lie and have that effect her and have it shown that her cool exterior made it hard for Azula to see the depths of her feelings. That would have been good writing, but it just wasn't there. :/ At the end, my main problem with it was that I had lumped Mai as part of what Zuko had always wanted, but didn't make him happy. This might not be the intent of the writers, but once that was there and he went with Mai... it just seemed like a regression in character development.
Now no telling me I'm ranting on this because you did ask for my opinion. ;)
Re: Protip:
So you're saying just what I said - up until 3.17, they didn't even like eachother, and people expected them to drop into a romantic relationship within the last 4 episodes? Why am I being singled out for pointing out that this is a completely unreasonable expectation? Not hating eachother is not enough to give you hope for a canon relationship.
And of course you're right, I asked for your .02 on Mai and I wasn't going to tell you that you were ranting at all.
Re: Protip:
A small nitpick, up until 3.16 Katara didn't like Zuko. While I doubt Zuko was particularly fond of her... I don't think he could really blame her so I don't think he could dislike her for that. As for whether it was plausible, I ask you to watch the finale without the epilogue portion (yes, I know it needs an epilogue, but humor me). I find it hard to believe that if they had cut off the Katara and Zuko portions after they had Azula chained that anyone could argue that it was impossible.
Did I single you out? I know that not hating isn't a relationship, but they have the same passionate nature. If Katara and Aang had been on opposing sides, you wouldn't have gotten the same dynamics you got with her and Zuko, just because Aang is so tempered. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it just doesn't work for me with some who has (and I hate to say it like this) such a fiery personality. Their relationship is full of fluff and the best friend bit that kids shows always have, but just all fluff is dull. If it weren't for passion and conflict being so much more interesting we'd all be reading cutesy fanfics right now made of nothing but snuggles. It just didn't seem right that even their conflicts would blow away so easily... *shrugs* The struggle is what makes it worth it. It's true that Zutara didn't have an easy road and may have worked better if season 3 was divided differently, but if the staff had wanted, it could have gone in that direct. Personally I think it's telling that some of the staff (though obviously not the creators) seemed to prefer Zutara (though I'll admit I've only seen the nick magazine and the rest I've just heard about).
That was just a tease. Hence the wink by it.
Re: Protip:
What you're doing here is asking me to disregard parts of canon to see how it is possible. I won't deny that what happened in the finale could certainly form the basis of a relationship (it was Bryke's gift to the fangirls, in a way) but to see it exclusively as that is to take it out of its context. Within context, Katara has been grappling with her feelings for Aang, and a single gesture by Zuko so late in the game is not likely to change that. And... it doesn't.
Their relationship is full of fluff and the best friend bit that kids shows always have, but just all fluff is dull. If it weren't for passion and conflict being so much more interesting we'd all be reading cutesy fanfics right now made of nothing but snuggles.
Dude, a happy relationship does not mean a boring relationship, nor does it mean they'll never have conflict. You pointed out one for yourself - Aang is very mellow and Katara is often very fiery. There's plenty of room for conflict, and there's plenty of external conflict if you don't feel there's anything internal. The endearing thing about happy, boring couples is also that they allow you to focus on the character's specific issues through the lens of the relationship rather than just on the characters creating more drama between them. That has its own appeal.
Re: Protip:
A happy relationship does not mean a boring relationship
That's exactly my point... happy relationships are usually full of arguments... and she doesn't get that with Aang... look at the finale or the last few episodes, whenever Aang has a conflict with Katara, there's no understanding between them. He yells at her because he's frustrated about the upcoming battle, and she takes it... That just doesn't seem like her in a relationship with an equal. They don't focus on each other's issues, or at least not with any real understanding. Her relationship with Aang did not help Katara get over her mother's death, because in some way he didn't understand that she needed to face him. Just the same way, Katara didn't understand what it was like with the upcoming battle. They're not on the same wavelength; they have too many issues with their relationship to actually help each other.
I am not asking you to disregard any parts of canon, I'm asking you to open your mind to different possibilities, but you seem to adamant that there is no way that my personal interpretation is valid. It's not like I'm pulling at the most random 'hints' in the series, instead I'm saying that there was a large focus on Katara and Zuko's personal opinions of each other, and if you look at that as a major part of the series, it's not farfetched to ship them as a plausible pairing. I'm not asking you to say that they were somehow going to be canon all along, but instead that they had a 1 in 10 chance of happening, hell, I'd be pleased if you could see 1 in 20. That's what I mean by plausible. I knew it was unlikely, but all I'm saying is that there was a small chance if the creators had decided to go that way. I don't really see why the 1 in 10 chance that I prefer is hurting you.
If this was an actual debate, I'd be happy to continue it, but you seem to be completely close-minded and are only using this as a way to try to show me how ludicrous it is to actually believe that my preferred interpretation had the smallest chance. The thing is... it's not just my interpretation... of the 5 people I know in real life who are fans of avatar, 3 of them favored Zutara (and this is a diverse group, including my mother and a male friend). If the pairing is so implausible, why do so many people prefer it? I'm not saying that these people were disappointed in Kataang, but it's not just one person... that lends it credence. I'm not saying that you have to accept it, though I would appreciate you giving it a little consideration instead of automatically dismissing it as invalid.
I really don't understand why you are so concerned about what I personally consider to be plausible. I'm not saying that it was supposed to happen all I'm saying is that it could have. If there weren't the contrived drama and other issues with how the couples were canon, I would not have had a problem with it. I don't have a problem with people preferring either couple. Why do my preferences and beliefs bother you so much?