[ SECRET POST #4857 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4857 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 11 secrets from Secret Submission Post #694.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I know we have a lot of Voyager fans here but it's probably the least popular ST show, and in a lot of peoples' opinion, the writing was terrible and failed to take the characters in interesting places. So those are some of the reasons the character gets hate.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, but I just don't think the writing was terrible. There were some awful episode, but no more than any other Trek show. Everything I've seen people point to as "terrible writing" has been something entirely subjective that they personally dislike but to me has been something good about Voyager (for example, Janeway being both maternal with her crew and a more traditional military-like captain in her interactions with other races sometimes when the situation called for it does not strike me as inconsistent characterization but says to me that Janeway is complex and can be the type of captain a particular situation calls for).

[(Anonymous)]

OK.

[greghousesgf]

I think Janeway was maternal only in the Joan Crawford sense....

[(Anonymous)]

How do you mean? The actress, sure. But the character?

[(Anonymous)]

The character is maternal in the sense that she is literally a mother, but she abandoned her alien lizard babies so I'm not sure if that's a point in her favor.

[(Anonymous)]

But she mothers her crew. She captains them in a way that is explicitly maternal and different from the way the previous captains had been.

[(Anonymous)]

How badly did your relationship with your own maternal figures go that you think Janeway mothers her crew?

Also, even if you're right (which is highly subjective), in what universe is a boss treating their crew like children in need of raising a good or healthy thing anyway?

Also, none of this negates the fact that Janeway abandoned her children in a swamp.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, none of this negates the fact that Janeway abandoned her children in a swamp.

I love you anon. :D

[(Anonymous)]

same. the writing might not have been pulitzer-worthy but it was just right for a risk-taking entry in a popular scifi franchise. occasionally bad, occasionally brilliant, most of the time entertaining and more than anything we want entertaining.

[silverr]

"the least popular ST show,"

... less popular than Enterprise?

[(Anonymous)]

I think it might be, yeah

[philstar22]

Um, pretty sure you are wrong about that. Enterprise is definitely less popular, as is Discovery.

[(Anonymous)]

It's hard to tell anymore b/c things get super weird with streaming. People can discover one show almost in isolation from the others. I don't know if there's an unambiguous measure of popularity.

That said, I think there's definitely a significant population of Trek fans who came around really hard on later-season Enterprise. Voyager still has a lot of people who are really cool on it, or like it semi-ironically. And I see a lot of Disco fans on social media, but again, it's harder to compare because it's currently airing.

[philstar22]

Voyager has retroactively gotten people saying it wasn't so bad because of Enterprise and Discovery. Discovery has gotten a lot of strong reactions either love or hate, so yes, it has been harder to tell. But I still see a lot more hate of Enterprise than of Voyager. Mostly I see "meh" more than active hate from Voyager whereas I still see people saying that Enterprise is where Trek went wrong.

[silverr]

huh, that's never been my perception, but I don't have any objective criterion.

(I looked at the numbers of fics on Ao3, but those numbers look lopsided (e.g., far less TNG fics than I had expected).

[philstar22]

Honestly that's going to be around whether there are pairings the fandom can obsess over. Enterprise had some passionate slash shippers in the fandom, as did Voyager. TNG didn't really have a ton of active shippers.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, Voyager being 2nd most popular after TOS definitely seems incorrect to me

[silverr]

Well, third, because of AoS, but yeah.

And Enterprise > DS9? Pul-LEASE.

[(Anonymous)]

It might have to do with which of these have people currently writing a lot of fics for them, which is not the same as how popular they were when airing or how popular they've ever been. AO3 wasn't around when TNG fandom was at its height, of course, and its been a long time since Nemesis, so until Picard came along there wasn't much to re-ignite TNG fannishness beyond basic background levels the way the reboot movies apparently re-ignited TOS fannishness.

[silverr]

That does make sense /wrt TNG, but I was surprised at the numbers for TOS —
although a lot of that might be people writing for AOS and double-tagging.

[(Anonymous)]

By what metric? Because Voyager averaged more viewers than Enterprise. And Voyager is pretty consistently ranked higher than Enterprise in entertainment media rankings (LA Times, Vulture, Nerdist, etc.).

Right?

[(Anonymous)]

NA

I read that and was immediately like "Uh, Enterprise?"