fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #696 ]

[ SECRET POST #696 ]

⌈ Secret Post #696 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Stargate Atlantis]

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[My Chemical Romance]

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 290 secrets from Secret Submission Post #100.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

lol, it's not because the other fans happen to speak a different language. If you're such an inflated self-important dick that you get seriously upset by the idea of someone cropping a picture of a character that doesn't belong to you to 100x100 and using it on their blog, you deserve to get laughed at whatever language you speak.

but idk fanartists are special snowflake babies whose wishes we all must tiptoe around for fear of causing them the slightest distress, never mind the fact that the level of control they want over work that they have no legal right to is one that no professional artist would be able to sensibly expect.

It's about being considerate of other people's feelings, but that doesn't exist on the Internet. The only reason you feel the need to deride them for being self-important is because you're butthurt that artists are more talented, contribute more to the fandom, and are appreciated more for it than you can ever hope.

Iconists throw fits when people don't comment and credit. If this is their stance on crediting the "source", then I say to hell with it. Free icon buffet for all.

I have these opinions because I'm jealous? lol what no. Fanartists can get away with that shit because people automatically respect your opinion a whole lot more when you're a popular artist - I know this because I am one, and the amount of uncritically positive feedback you get is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not saying all popular fanartists are immature, but if you are an even slightly popular fanartist and you're immature enough to flip out every time someone does something like not credit you for your fanart when they used it for an icon or youtube music video, chances are you don't have any fandom friends who'll tell you to your face that you're overreacting and that it's really no big deal. I've had close friends of mine flamed by my fans for jokingly disagreeing with me, and I'm not even really a BNF. I've seen much worse on the LJs or dA pages of really popular artists. If you're popular and you take your fans seriously, then it's very easy to get big-headed enough to think your distress over someone reposting your art on 4chan is worth throwing a tantrum over, especially when every single one of your fans will pat you on the back in an attempt to curry your favour – and when anyone who criticises you for it will get flamed. That's why it's accepted as standard in fandom for artists to be able to react in this way.

"If this is their stance", what? I'm not an iconist. I think iconists overreacting over people not crediting their icons is every bit as stupid as fanartists getting worked up over people not asking to use their fanart, if not more so.

"I think iconists overreacting over people not crediting their icons is every bit as stupid as fanartists getting worked up over people not asking to use their fanart, if not more so."

THIS. And I say this as an iconist.

I think iconists overreacting over people not crediting their icons is every bit as stupid as fanartists getting worked up over people not asking to use their fanart

Not me. Fanart actually requires, I don't know, work.

I assumed you were an icon maker, and since it's not the case, I apologize. However, the original issue in this thread was that artists from non-English speaking fandoms probably are not aware of the same set of "rules" and etiquette that we go by. You mentioned your personal experience on LJ, dA, and 4chan, but those are all presumable English-speaking fans who can at least open a channel of communication to discuss their grievances. In this case, fit-throwing is entirely immature. But the English speaking fandom is really all I have to go by, unless you're aware of how it is in other fandoms, and whether or not these fandoms regularly cross paths. In that case, you may enlighten me.

Let's say you have a Japanese artist who for whatever reason specifically requests that people to do redistribute their art or use it without their permission or giving them credit. The problem is, said request is Japanese. We cannot expect all iconists to know Japanese, but this language barrier can cause them to come off unintentionally callous, while the artists are thinking that their wishes have been blithely ignored. In this case, it's completely unfair to laugh at them for being offended or big headed, since it really comes down to a case of misunderstanding. No communication has been attempted between the parties. Preemptive linking should take care of that.

The truth is, I hate it when talented artists close down their sites because of fandom misunderstandings, and I do not want language barrier to contribute to this situation. On the other hand, it seems to me that the majority of iconists do ask for credit, and it makes me think that artists should get the same courtesy from them.

From what I've seen of the behaviour of Japanese fanartists with this, it's pretty much identical to the behaviour of artists in English-speaking fandom, just sometimes on a bigger scale. The overblown sense of entitlement, the ego polished by people tiptoeing round them because they're omg popular and talented, this happening with a lot of people and creating an environment where it's just considered normal for fanartists to have this attitude – it's the same. Yeah, asking someone is always nice – as long as you're not too intimidated by the artist or convinced they have better things to do with their time than speak to you, which is often the case – but I think the problem isn't so much people being inconsiderate as it is fanartists, wherever they are in the world and whatever language they speak, believing they are justified in reacting like the use of their fanart without their express permission is some kind of immense slight against them when it isn't, any more than someone printing their stuff off and pinning it to their wall is. You don't need to speak the same language as them to work out that it just means they like it.

I agree on your last point, though. If an iconist is going to insist on credit then they should practice what they preach – but it's the hypocrisy that annoys me rather than the fact of their not asking the artist's permission in and of itself.

Well, I don't necessarily agree that it's the norm for all fan artists to get away with excessive diva behavior, because I don't think all fan artists behave the same way. Also, perhaps a large part of the problem is caused by the fans who bash people voicing criticisms, regardless of how the artist actually chooses to respond.

Overall, given the amount of work that goes into art, I don't think it's out of the question for the artists to expect a link back to their websites or a mention of their names somewhere, if only so other people can trace the art back to the source and not have to keep asking, "This is pretty, where is it from?" all the time. I'm not saying you have to ask and get permission before even thinking about using the art; the same crediting routine used for icons could reasonably be implemented for fan art.

Either that or everyone shuts up about it and no one credits anyone at all. But that would make it really hard to find good icons and fan art :\

Well, I wouldn't say all fanartists get away with excessive diva behaviour – I know I don't – but it's pretty easy to. Up until the point when you get your own article on encyclopedia dramatica, anyway.

Yeah, absolutely it's nice to link back – I know I like it when people credit because it means I know where I can find more of the same. I like being credited when people use my art, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I didn't. It'd just be nice if people – fanartists and iconists alike – would calm down about it and not act like it's the end of the world and their rights have been violated every time someone doesn't ask permission or know where the fanart's from or who made the icon or whatever. Since fandom is pretty much about sharing our love of a series anyway, why can't we be more sharing about the other stuff we put into it?

Actually, copyright laws in Japan are so draconian that professional artists are able to expect that kind of control over the specific images they draw. The fanartists are just coming from that kind of culture.

I know it sucks for those of us who want to make icons of their pretty art, but seriously, we're not entitled to that art. Sure, they're not "entitled" to control over their art either by our standards, but it seems to me like the reasonable thing to do here would be to respect their wishes.

That's news to me, but I'd still say how upset and worked up people get over this sort of thing is pretty damn ridiculous regardless of the laws involved – especially since it's not usually the legal side of things that people are getting upset about, it's the idea that they've somehow been personally violated. It's fanart. You don't have the original creator's express permission to use the characters in the first place, so why should you be more special than them? Yes, it'd be really nice if everyone was nice to each other and respected one another's wishes and everything, but I think that first, a lot of fanartists need to take a deep breath and think about the fact that people sharing their fanart or making icons out of it doesn't actually do them or anyone else any harm.

Yes, it'd be really nice if everyone was nice to each other and respected one another's wishes and everything, but I think that first, a lot of fanartists need to take a deep breath and think about the fact that people sharing their fanart or making icons out of it doesn't actually do them or anyone else any harm.

Hope, pray, wish and dream this'd happen in Japanese fandom. They do not like their sites to be fucking LINKED TO for god's sake... it's an entirely different wavelength. You try telling them that. Honestly. Try it. It will not go through. I need to make a RAAAAAGE secret one of these days...

Personally I don't use fanart in icons - I love it when people use my fanart, but I have enough non-fanart icons to use - but I make no comment any more on other people using fanart as icons. Frankly speaking I just don't give a fuck about their inflated egos anymore.

THIS... 100 times. "Icons are not bases"... like they can DO anything about it? It just makes them look stupid.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #696 ]

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