fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #697 ]

⌈ Secret Post #697 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe]

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[NO WAY I AM NOT COUNTING WORDS]

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[Naruto]

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 217 secrets from Secret Submission Post #100.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Oh, honey. I get what you're trying to say, and I agree, but...seriously, take a closer look at Elphaba and please don't use her as a role model. I don't know if you're looking more at book or musical canon, but either way the girl has some serious issues and quite a lot of male-related issues, in large part related but not limited to her relationship with her father. And the fact that she turns into a hermit rather than let anyone forgive her for her mistakes. Uh, yeah.

And what's so great about Fiyero, anyway? Their completely undeveloped and never quite believable romance? The fact that he cheats on his wife without a second thought (in bookverse) or the fact that he agrees to marry Elphie's best friend ~~and sekrit lover~~ to keep from making too many waves (in musicalverse)?

Want something better for yourself. And if you're going to adopt Elphaba as your identification figure, go for it, but at least admit that comes part and parcel with issues, flaws, and failings.

this x infinity

While I can understand urging someone to look deeply into a person/character before using them as a role model, I have to wonder why I never see comments like this when someone picks a typical hero/ine archetype as a role model. There seems to be a bit of a double standard, where people seriously question someone who models themself off of a person/character's better (or at least more admirable) characteristics when said model is a very flawed character, yet if the model is the sort who does not have many serious (or, at least, obvious) flaws as a person, then there aren't questions.

Seriously, in all the fandoms I've been in, or at least lurked around the edges of, this is the norm. Say, Pokemon, for example. No one questions you if you say your role model is Satoshi, Takeshi, or Kasumi, despite the flaws of these characters (Satoshi is very loud-mouthed, Takeshi is a bit of a pervert, and Kasumi is extremely bossy and overbearing at times). However, if you say your role models are Musashi or Kojiro, despite their admirable qualities (tenacity, inventiveness, desire to better themselves), because they are, for whatever reasons, 'villains', people say that you shouldn't admire them and try to be like them. While I'll agree you shouldn't aspire to a life of thievery and crime, I also think people should bring up the protagonists' negative points as well when people claim them as role models. I don't think anyone should aspire to be a lecherous wanna-be womanizer either, and that constitutes a major part of Takeshi's character in the anime.

Of course, I may be a bit overly sensitive on this regards, as I had a secret posted a bit ago about how a right bastard of a man was the one who finally gave me the impetus to get the fuck off my ass and do something with my life, and a lot of people who actually knew about the person I was talking about questioned why I was inspired by him.

...I typed out a really long reply to this and LJ ate it, so let's see if I can reconstruct?

I see your point, now here's mine: I see a difference between "I admire [x trait] about [x character] and wish to emulate it" and "I wish to emulate everything about [x character] because clearly all of their traits are admirable and there's nothing wrong with being just like them", and because I have an unfortunate tendency towards literalism and pedantry, I tend to interpret something like signing yourself "a modern day [x character]" to mean closer to the latter.

I like to think that if I saw someone saying they wanted to be just like the Doctor/Jack Shephard/Dylan Hunt (all fairly typical hero archetypes in conception) I would reply with "why would you want to be just like a guy who is fundamentally incapable of committing and has gotten steadily more immature over the past eight hundred years/a perfectionist who winds up addicted to drugs and ruining his own life/a sleazy pervert who takes sexual advantage of a girl incapable of saying no?" Possibly my fandoms lend themselves towards more blatantly screwed-up heroes, though.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being inspired by a certain character trait even if the character in question is a fuck-up...I think there's a difference between that and "I am JUST LIKE [character in question] and that is a good thing".

I think what maybe people are failing to take into consideration is that maybe she isn't emulating the character, but maybe she feels she is already a lot like the character and accepts it. Does that come with flaws? Sure, but who doesn't? Not everyone who says they are The Such-and-Such Character are actively trying to be like that character, but perhaps are already coincidentally similar. I know, for instance, most of the characters I like and identify with, I like them and identify with them because they remind me of who I already am, not who I want to be.

In general terms, I get your point -- and I have identification characters who I generally identify with on the basis of their most central flaws and mine coinciding -- but the way the original secret was worded sounds like she's identifying with all of Elphie's positive traits and not noticing that the girl's screwed-up.

"Opinionated, passionate, stubborn, blunt, intelligent, and confident young woman" doesn't sound like she's feeling "Gee, I identify with Elphaba because I also have an almost pathological need to earn my father's appreciation and am incapable of accepting that other people could forgive my flaws" so much as "I identify with Elphaba because I AM ALSO AWESOME IN WAYS PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND/SEE", and "looking for her Fiyero" doesn't sound like she's thinking "I am looking for a guy who is almost as screwed-up as I am so I can make a bunch of mistakes with him but honestly try" so much as "I am looking for an awesome guy who will also admire my awesomeness so we can have an exciting and romantic relationship".

The OP seems -- to me, and I am admittedly incredibly biased in the ways I view the world, and I am taking this from a very brief secret, and insert more disclaimers here -- to be romanticizing/idealizing Elphaba and her relationship with Fiyero and that's what I have difficulty with.

Administer with a grain of salt, etc.

[ SECRET POST #697 ]

101

Re: 101

Re: 101

Re: 101

not the op or the other commenter

Re: not the op or the other commenter