Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-12-02 05:04 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-12-02 05:04 pm
[ SECRET POST #697 ]
⌈ Secret Post #697 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe]
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Notes:
CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/
Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 217 secrets from Secret Submission Post #100.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
I would rather them be honest then hide behind that, and there is nothing wrong with saying a particular doesn't click with you, no one really sees a problem with that.
But then it comes down to that the MOST people in general do the whole "I don't like this thing so that must mean that it is not good at all and it must generally suck." So yes they generalize their preferences as some sort of objective judgment.
My point is I don't give much credence to the "there is a lack of good female characters" argument, when it is taken as some objective truth.
Oh, but they do. Mostly it's the main character, but they still call him "flat", "uninteresting", "cardboard cut-out", "stupid", "self-righteous", and so on.
But that is never linked to the maleness, whereas it always is with the female.
There is a double standard there, and it is lot more widespread then we like, even in the more "mature" segments of fandom.
I don't have many series where I like all the characters. It's not a criteria for me.
Neither do I, but if I don't like at least one woman in the series, then I tend to drop it, just because I rather not spend an entire series or book hating on disliking everyone of one gender in it.
no subject
Some people, sometimes large parts of fandom, do have a problem with this. Specifically, I can mention Kingdom Hearts, where dislike of Kairi (one of the main female characters) will get you chewed out, or Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles, where dislike of Sakura will result in the same. And I'm talking about the attitudes on the major meta sites.
I'm not saying that this excuses false criticism of female characters - it's still a bad thing to do - but it's an explanation. If people thought a little about why they felt and did things, this would be much less of a problem.
My point is I don't give much credence to the "there is a lack of good female characters" argument, when it is taken as some objective truth.
I think there is an enormous lack of good female characters in almost every form of media. Given that women are a slight majority of the world population and that we have as varied personalities as men, the few crumbs of decent characterisation we get in some media is far from enough. This is also something that's fairly openly talked about by media specialists, so I don't know why you think it's not valid criticism.
But that is never linked to the maleness, whereas it always is with the female.
Is it? Do you have examples? The most recent large criticism outbreak against female characters I read has been in the Supernatural fandom, and every piece of it was about characterisation, not about gender, except in the case where the creators were criticised for misrepresenting women.
if I don't like at least one woman in the series, then I tend to drop it, just because I rather not spend an entire series or book hating on disliking everyone of one gender in it.
I don't even have that criteria; I need to like the main protagonists and/or antagonists (otherwise I don't care what happens to them, and then it's pretty much a waste of time). I try to think of characters as persons, first and foremost, rather than their gender. What I find disheartening is that creators don't tend to do that.
There are two levels of discussion; the treatment of female characters in a specific series, and treatment of female characters in media at large. I think our discussion is weaving in and out of this a little, making it a bit unclear. I can appreciate and enjoy a series while still being very critical of its treatment of female characters.
no subject
What are their definitions of good? That is what I don't get about a lot of these discussions, is what do they mean by strong, and well-written, and good. I can never seem to find out what the standards are and why those are the standards.
And yes, I do believe there needs to be a lot more, but I disagree with this notion that there are none, and aren't easy to find, because I don't think that is true either. I also am mainly talking about fandom and not academia, who I really don't care about. When fandom uses it, I tend to think they are using it as a mask and not for the same reasons as academia.
I also think we are entering a period where it is becoming more about personal preference a less about any objective standard.
I see a lot of talk about how the total dislike of a character is put all on the creator or writer, and the person can never distinguish that it might be a matter of personal preference.
I can appreciate and enjoy a series while still being very critical of its treatment of female characters.
I can't, which is not to say that I can't be critical of them, but it is more if I think they are poorly written and I don't like the treatment of them in the text, then I tend to walk away very quickly. So it isn't about them being likeable or even about them being my favorite characters, it is just if they are poorly written, I am taken out of the story and so I leave it, no matter how much I like other things about the series. You obviously approach things differently, and that is fine.
no subject
There are some things that have been mentioned; agency, actively working to attain the things they want, goals and ambitions other than finding a man to depend on. If a relationship is important, it should be a companionship, not a leader/follower situation. But mostly, I think it can be summarised with two words: character development. For a character to be strong and interesting, it has to go through difficulties and grow.
I also am mainly talking about fandom and not academia,
Though sometimes they are the same thing, and academia sometimes talks about the same things as we do in fandom.
That there are no good female characters in any media is obviously wrong. But I think rational discussion of the failings in characterisation is basically a good thing.
I see a lot of talk about how the total dislike of a character is put all on the creator or writer, and the person can never distinguish that it might be a matter of personal preference.
I think that the personal preference is often based on the mistakes of the creator of the work, and that people are largely unaware of this.
if I think they are poorly written and I don't like the treatment of them in the text, then I tend to walk away very quickly.
I can't take badly written main characters, which, of course, include female characters. I'm more forgiving about side characters, since the focus isn't on them.
There are also degrees; sometimes certain creators makes mistakes with characters that don't affect the whole characterisation. Take Linali Li from D.gray-man, for example. She's a great character, but why did the creator find it necessary to give her a miniskirt, and have her serve the other exorcists of the same rank coffee? Especially since the story mostly takes place in a pseudo early 20th century Britain/Europe. Why was she picked as the character to be rendered helpless and in need of saving for several chapters, while the male characters overcame their difficulties on their own?
She's basically a very good character with whom the creator made some bad choices. I still like her very much, but I'm critical of certain aspects of her. This is much more common than hating a character completely, for me.