[ SECRET POST #4938 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4938 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 34 secrets from Secret Submission Post #707.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I've never found anyone who can do more than the basics, and tell me the rest is fine. I know it's fine, I want someone to tell me how to make it better.

[(Anonymous)]

A really good beta is rare. It's not a common skill set, and the few people who can do it are reluctant to do it for just anyone for good reason. Hope you keep trying and best of luck.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, especially because one of my fandoms is tiny. Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Out of curiosity, at what point do you send your fic to your beta? Do you send it to them when it's as polished as you know how to make it, or when it's still rough?

I haven't beta'd a ton, but I've beta'd for a few people, and really, truly, there have been people whose fics were basically just finished when they sent them to me. Like, theoretically they probably could've been better. But they were so smooth and tight that it would've been very hard to point to a place and go, "Here. You need to rip this finished thing open right here and add a part."

OTOH, I've also beta'd for people who wrote very rough first drafts, and then immediately sent them to me. Those were the times when I could really go to town, suggesting all sorts of tweaks and changes and things to add and things to subtract. Really structural and tonal editing.

IMO, in order to get the most out of a beta, sending them an early draft is the way to go. However, there is also nothing wrong with sending them a very nearly finished fic and seeing what they have to say. Both ways are valid.

Or maybe you just got betas who weren't very good. That is a strong possibility.

[(Anonymous)]

I've had a couple of people I've asked for advice in the earlier stages with bits and pieces, but I only send it when I've done the best I can already. I'd feel rude making someone slog through all the obvious mistakes, and my early drafts are mostly indecipherable shorthand. I like to get the structure figured out first.

I think what I wanted was a fresh set of eyes to tell me where the finished product doesn't flow well. It's hard for me to see that or to see what can be improved after sitting at it for so long.

It's possible they weren't confident or had no idea, or even that they didn't want to offend me by telling me the whole thing was mediocre and changing one or two things wouldn't really help. Lol.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - IMO, that's how it ought to be done. Chances are your betas weren't good enough to identify potential issues with your writing. Lots of people believe they're a good beta. Most of them are very, very wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

This is exactly how I do it - hammer it out as well as I can, maybe chat to someone about issues during writing but in a general "i can't think of how to get from x to y", and then send it off when I'm done.

I'm not used to using a beta, and have only started recently with a friend whose writing I admire and who isn't afraid to pull things apart and point out what doesn't work, but I only tend to ask for feedback on stuff I'm not entirely happy with myself but can't think how to fix. When you've spent so long sitting staring at a piece of writing you do get a bit fuzzy-eyed and lose the big picture a bit (at least I do) and that fresh pair of eyes is a great help.

[(Anonymous)]

The people I beta for send it to me when they've gotten it as polished as they feel they can reasonably get it. Even then... there's always something. I don't mean to disparage your beta abilities, but it's rare for even the best writers to turn out nearly perfect drafts. If I was a betting person, I'd bet that the reason why you aren't finding issues isn't because they're not there, it's because you're unable to identify them.

I disagree re: sending rough drafts. Perhaps an exception can be made if a writer needs help puzzling out the direction of a story and simply cannot get any further on their own. But otherwise, it makes more sense for the writer to get the fic as polished as they can get it, THEN seek the services of a good beta. If I learned that someone was sending me an early draft without going through at least one round of revisions on their own, I'd politely decline to beta for them ever again. That's work that ought to be done by the author, not by me.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd bet that the reason why you aren't finding issues isn't because they're not there, it's because you're unable to identify them.

I'd take that bet. Not everyone writes in the same style. Some people's most tightly polished fic is still pretty loose. Other's, not so much. In my experience, most people who write long fics are looser writers. There's almost always wiggle room to see where they could make changes and improve. OTOH, people who write shorter fics (usually in the 2K - 6K range) are often extremely tight writers. They write prose like it's poetry. You can suggest adding a line here or there to help clarify or pull more attention, but I've beta'd for writers where it would've been failing to respect the nature of their work if I'd insisted they force in changes at such a late stage in the game.

it makes more sense for the writer to get the fic as polished as they can get it, THEN seek the services of a good beta.

I strongly disagree. If someone's rough draft is extremely rough, then I'd say their best bet is to send their second draft. It was always the most experienced writers who did it that way, too. The people who sent me rough drafts were the people who had masters degrees and doctorates. They wanted a beta's eyes on it before it started to set in their mind. They wanted to get a second perspective while it was still at its maximum malleability.

The people who sent their fics to me already polished, I'd end up mostly doing spag. I'd ask them if they had any specific concerns and I'd address those concerns. The people who sent me rough drafts however--I got elbows deep in there and helped them figure out pacing, tone, impact, characterization, what was missing, why something wasn't working.

I'm the sort of writer who only sends a fic to a beta when it's as polished as I can get it. So I understand that type of writer. But I honestly wish I was the other type. It always amazed me how frankly not very good their work was when I'd first get it. Yet what they ended up posting was the kind of stuff that got them BNF status.

[(Anonymous)]

I only really beta and am beta'd by friends, and we send more or less final drafts for a polish, but we tend to chat to each other while writing to throw out ideas and problems we're having, which works really well for me bc I can be as vague or specific as I want to be about a particular part.