[ SECRET POST #705 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #705 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.


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103.
[Elf]


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104.
[Naria: Caspian/Susan]


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105.
[Hellsing]


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106.


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107.


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108.
[Snoop Dogg, Sensual Seduction music video]


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109.
[Weiss Kreuz]


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110.


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111.


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112.


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113.


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114.


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115.


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116.


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117.


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118.


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119.


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120.


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121.
[NCIS]


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122.


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123.


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124.


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125.


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126.


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127.
[Eternal Sonata]


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128.


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129.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]


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130.


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131.


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132.


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133.
[Spirited Away]


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134.


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135.
[Prince of Persia]


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136.
[Eureka]


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137.
[It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia]


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138.


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139.


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140.
[Harry Potter]


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141.
[Special A]


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142.
[Labyrinth]


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143.
[Making Fiends]


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144.


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145.


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146.
[Bust a Groove]


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147.


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148.


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149.


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150.


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151.


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152.


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153.


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154.


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155.


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156.


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157.


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158.


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159.


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160.


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161.


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162.


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163.


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164.


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165.
[Hetalia]


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166.


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167.
[Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann - Gurren Gakuenhen]


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168.
[MSNBC, Morning Joe: Joe Scarborough/Mika Brzezinski]


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169.


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170.



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #101.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

... Uh.

... What?

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

"base desire for orgasms"-? I mean, really. I understand you're talking about 'our' orgasms, and not theirs', but for godsake, our politicians are some of the dirtiest fuckers in existence. An RPS comm about them is hardly tainting them in any way by comparison.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

... Uh.

... I didn't say anything was being tainted. I said that I think people deserve enough respect to not be reduced to sex objects and porn fodder. Yes, politicians included.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I don't know about you, but I respect the people I have sex with. And the people I fantasize about. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

And I'm sure lots of people who watched Nailin' Paylin respected Sarah a great deal, but that didn't make it any less disrespectful and demeaning.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Wow, strawman much?

I'm sorry, but. Are you new to the internets?

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Are you really trying to tell me that using somebody's image any way you please so you can get off to them is automatically respectful just because you happen to respect the person? Like, "I voted for Obama and I think he's great, so everything I ever write about him will be respectful by default?" If I respect Harvey Milk, is it automatically respectful to write noncon slash with his assassin?

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Are you really trying to tell me that you believe WRITTEN FICTION is harmful?

Also, STRAW MAN ARGUMENT. Look it up before you debate any further.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

It's not a straw man. You argued that because you respect the people you fantasize about, the act of writing about them in sexual situations is not disrespectful. It's possible that I'm misunderstanding your argument, but you're free to clarify.

Actually, you're the one making a strawman argument here. I never implied that it was harmful, and explicitly said many times that I think it's disrespectful.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Re straw man-You gave me: Visual pornography where a woman is subjugated (unless my assumption is wrong about Nailin Palin) and the made up notion of Milk/Assassin non-con. And this is your reasoning for why a comm where a bunch of women perv on two handsome guys who happen to be in politics is wrong.

There is nothing inherently disrespectful about sex. Or fiction. That is indeed my argument. You are free to disagree, but you are not free to make the assumption that because I find someone attractive, or because I fantasize about them, or because I share those fantasies in locked communities, I somehow magically no longer respect them.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

I never said it was wrong, much like I never said it was harmful. You're projecting.

There is something inherently disrespectful about reducing a person to a sexual object. That is my argument. That has nothing to do with whether or not sex and fiction are inherently direspectful, and I never claimed that either of them were - so, really, if that's all you're saying then you're not arguing against me at all.

Also, you can respect someone and still act disrespectfully towards them. Simialarly, you can do something disrespectful to a person and still respect them greatly.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I'm projecting that disrespectful = wrong?

Okay! Then I can continue to write RPS and you approve.

Dude, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but you make the kind of sense that isn't.

Look. I think the difference between visual porn that purposefully demeans women, in full view of the woman it is demeaning, is fundamentally and inherently different than a bunch of women discussing Rahm Emanuel's ass in a locked community on LJ. If you don't see that difference, then there is too much for me to go back and explain for this conversation to happen without a chalk board, hand puppets, and basic gender studies texts.

You are free to believe I am acting disrespectfully. I respectfully disagree.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Disrespectful isn't the same as morally wrong. It is wrong to kill someone. It's disrespectful to call someone an ignorant motherfucker.

I've read basic gender studies texts. Do you know what they taught me? That reducing someone to a sexual object denies them of their humanity and that it is for this reason that much porn is effective at subjugating women and is relevant to the concept of patriarchy. What you're saying right now is that one is demeaning and the other isn't because one is demeaning and the other isn't. I won't argue that one is worse than the other due to context, but that doesn't really change that it's disrespectful to use someone's image divested of their humanity so that you can get your rocks off.

I never said there was anything wrong with a bunch of women talking about Rahm's ass in a community. I'm talking about Rahm and Obama porn, that's it. If you can't answer my question, just say so instead of constantly redirecting and reinterpreting what I'm actually saying.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

You're not asking questions, you are making value judgments, then backing down when people call you on them.

"It's disrespectful, but that doesn't mean it's wrong!" Okay!

At least have the guts of your convictions. Even if they're completely silly.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

You're the one who is backing down. Again you evade the question and redirect the topic. I never claimed it was WRONG. I even stopped to explain to you why I'm refusing to call it wrong: Wrong is, in my opinion, a word that should be used for stronger cases. I can't say that this is wrong because I don't believe that it should be put on the same level of absolute wrongs such as murder. That has nothing to do with my conviction, just an ability to grasp a spectrum of ethics.

Next time, just admit you can't answer the questions instead of bringing up something else for me to smack you down on.

[(Anonymous)]

no you still lose

it is because kita0610 doesn't spend hours posting unfunny comments on a comm where she's pretty much universally disliked

also, lol @ "winning" an argument about ethics on an lj fandom comm. especially considering your inability to argue based on actual merits of your claims. anyone can pick apart the minutiae of a post, you dipshit. getting sidetracked from the real issue and pulled into an pissing match of "he said, she said!" does not make you "a winnar"

your posts are worthless, you are worthless, GTFO :3

The Paperclipchains Drinking Game

[(Anonymous)]

1. Every time PCC posts over & over again in a FS thread as if it's making her mad money, take one very small sip.

2. Every time PCC makes an unfunny, long-winded serious!post in FS, take a sip.

3. Every time PCC brings up feminism, feminist theory or THE PATRIARCHY RAGH! in an unrelated discussion, take two sips.

4. Every time you find yourself wishing PCC would never comment again, take three sips to dull the head-splitting pain of reading her posts.

Warning: This game may lead to fatal alcohol poisoning.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh hey look a serious post on fandomsecrets, lol!

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

I suppose that my question to you is, why is Nailin' Paylin not okay on a theoretical level, but pornfic of Rahm and Obama is perfectly fine? Because we are discussing the porn here.

[(Anonymous)]

Whine to Feminist about it.

[(Anonymous)]

can i write a fic about how you never post on this comm again

cuz that would be sweet

[femaelstrom27.livejournal.com]

Is all porn (videos, fanfiction, pictures -- anything) then "disrespectful" to the subjects? Is fantasizing about a celebrity disrespectful? Or is that okay, but porn/fantasizing about politicians is a no-no because they are somehow worthy of more respect? If so, why? I mean, yes, I understand that they have "accomplished great things," and movie stars/porn stars/fictional characters haven't -- but they're all still people.

And if it's disrespectful to have porn or fantasies about anyone, what are we supposed to fap to?!

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

No, it isn't.

Depends, I think, on the context. I'm talking about a particular context here that many people have already said they don't really have or enjoy. Politicians do not have a higher threshhold than celebrities, but I would argue that people like Ghandi probably do since they are, in fact, more worthy of respect.

My only argument is that it is disrespectful to reduce someone to a purely sexual object. Not every porn and fantasy does that.