Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-12-14 05:14 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-12-14 05:14 pm
[ SECRET POST #709 ]
⌈ Secret Post #709 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 416 secrets from Secret Submission Post #102.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
123, 147, 173, 174
147. Whoa, I have missed a lot since the last time I watched TSL. :( I loved London.
173. uh, actually, YES, it is much more likely and realistic for someone "straight" to discover they are gay/bisexual than for someone gay to suddenly go "oh! nevermind, I'm straight!" People are raised to assume they and everyone else are heterosexual unless they discover otherwise, not the other way around. Generally, if you know you are gay, you know it because it's been a subject of much thought. While it could be possible someone straight has done the same, generally it is not the same situation. There is more leeway to work with assumed-straight characters for that reason.
174. CRY MOAR. One, there are plenty of action/adventure fan stories with romance absent or on the backburner -- and it's women writing most of those too. Secondly, just because you don't like romance doesn't mean it's worse than everything and "ruins" fandom. And thirdly? WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? There have always been discussions on romance/shipping in fandoms, and back when I joined fandom about nine or so year ago I was in shounen fandoms. Kirk/Spock shipping goes back to the 60s/70s. The "good old days" you're bashing women for "ruining" don't even exist.
(Interesting it's only "buttfucking" that ruins it for you -- I guess het and lesbian romances are totally okay.)
Re: 123, 147, 173, 174
This.
It'd be interesting to do some kind of poll of fanfiction writers (non-romance included). I'd guess they're about 70-80% female.
no subject
Re: 123, 147, 173, 174
(Anonymous) 2008-12-15 06:33 am (UTC)(link)I mentioned this elsewhere, but a major flaw in a lot of canons is that a character can only be straight or gay (especially if they're male). Which really makes it a pain in the ass when writing fanfic, because of the leeway for canonically straight characters that doesn't exist for canonically gay characters. It's okay to say that a character that's straight in canon could be bi or gay, and there are plenty of ways to write around any canon partners of the opposite sex. However, if the canon doesn't show a character with anyone but partners of the same sex, there's no leeway to say that maybe the character is bi and just prefers members of the same sex most of the time.
In fact, the inherent proof of this leeway is in your statement of characters being "assumed-straight". It's okay to say that about a character that's only been shown with opposite sex partners. It's okay to say that they could secretly be bi or gay, even if the creator of the work says that they are so straight they make rulers look bent. It's okay to say they harbor sexual attraction to members of the same sex even if they're known in their canon for being happily married/enjoying a very active sex life that only involves partners of the opposite sex/any sort of homophobe. Never mind that the canon portrays them as heterosexual, if we think it'd be an awesome (or just plain hot) dynamic for them to be with a character of the same sex, then we can do that.
Yet it's homophobic to say that a canonically gay character could be bi. In fact, if I said "assumed-gay", I guarantee you I would be flamed six ways to Sunday in less than six seconds. While I understand the amount of thought and self-searching that can go into deciding oneself is anything other than straight (seeing as I'm bi with a preference for my own physical sex), the fact remains that most canons with gay characters don't tend to have those characters as the focus of the romantic sub-plots. In fact, it's a fairly recent thing to even have gay characters be a main part of the canon in Western media. So for all we know, some gay characters COULD be bi, but it's never shown. (Unless we're talking Anne McCaffrey, but her work totally abuses the stereotype of the gay male and never even addresses lesbianism.)
That, and there's the problem that canons typically only cover a small portion of a character's entire life. So, if during that time period, a bi character only dates persons of the same sex, and it's never explicitly mentioned that they're bi, people would say the character is gay (of course, because we never see them with a partner of the opposite sex, it's a logical assumption, but I digress). It would be like if I only told someone about the past few significant others I've had. Just by that, they'd assume I was gay, which I am not.
Of course, in a way, I am not surprised that there's such a bias against bisexuality in fandom(I say this because even canonically straight characters tend to be written as feeling unfulfilled with sex and such until they find a homosexual partner and then suddenly everything is coming up roses and the sex is mindblowing), seeing as there's a bias against it in canons. Need I mention BtVS, where Willow went from dating men and being straight straight straight to dating another woman and being the most lesbian lesbian that ever was and totally forgot about her lifelong crush on Xander? This doesn't even get into the real-life bias against bisexuality from both homosexuals and heterosexuals.
...
Okay, fandom is making me bitter and rambly. I'm stepping away now.
Re: 123, 147, 173, 174
You also enter into uncomfortable territory when you make a known gay character decide they are bisexual or straight, because a lot of people think they can be "corrected" -- therapy even exists to turn gay people straight, as I'm sure you're aware. That problem does not exist for straight folks. Making an ambiguous(ly gay) character wouldn't echo that, but turning a confirmed gay character straight would, imo, and I think that's another reason some people are uncomfortable with it.