fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #709 ]

[ SECRET POST #709 ]

⌈ Secret Post #709 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 416 secrets from Secret Submission Post #102.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

A few things. Which is odd, because I've never felt the need to comment ever in the history of me reading these posts.

1) I'll agree with the sexism accusations here. Might it be true despite the sexist presumption? Maybe. But it's irrelevant anyway. I just felt that needed to be touched on before I was accused of the same.

2) I really have come to despise the word ship more than any other word in the english language. And it's not even the intended definition of the damn word (or part of speech when you get down to it, but that's just the grammar geek bit of me having his say)! I've developed a hatred of the word fandom as a result because, nowadays, the term fandom is automatically assumed to mean one sits around creating badly-written fic about every possible combination of characters they can force to have sex (regardless of whether or not such an action would be 'in character', but that's saved for #3) for no reason at all.

I consider myself a fan of a great number of shows, book series, etc. But when I mention this to a fellow 'fan', I'm instantly asked about pairings I ship. The next person to ask me that question dies without a second thought. Can't a person just enjoy a show/book/whatever a great deal without forcing characters to have sex with everyone? If that gets you off, go for it, but don't call it fandom. You're just destroying the word for the rest of us and giving us a bad name to people who don't understand.

And finally, that brings us to my final topic:

3) You're also diminishing the quality of fanfic in general by making it all about these sex fantasies you'd like to share with the rest of us for some reason. There's no requirement that a plot be invented, or if one is that it be reasonably believable. Characters don't have to stay in character, because there's no depth, as most of the fic that doesn't deal with sex is just padding it as an excuse to get to the sex.

As a desperate plea from someone who takes his writing seriously that I'm sure will fall on deaf ears: please, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, just take 10 minutes to think this shit out a little more and make it halfway reasonable. I don't care how hot it makes you, but your favorite pairing of the hero of some series with his nemesis PROBABLY is never going to happen if you do what a real writer does and ask, "Would the character actually do that or am I insisting upon it for my own sake?"

To those few brave souls left who write quality fic (you know, like with a plot that isn't an excuse for two random characters to get it on...even if they DO get it on, just so long as that's not the only reason it exists) and actually keep characters in character and don't twist them to your own ends and make them do what YOU wanted them to do, I salute you. Keep on writing, and I hope I can find your writing as I sift through the endless muck clogging the tubes nowadays.

So it's a good thing I'm bored tonight with not much to do, because I'm sure the flame war this will incite will provide endless amusement. Let the games begin.

If this starts a flame war, I'm not going to be the one causing it, because for the most part I agree. Granted, I haven't written any fanfiction yet (even though I'm not new to this whole fandom business), but I know that if and when I do, I don't plan on it being all about the sex, or even romance. I like some well-written PWP every now and again, but after a while it just gets really tiring. So I sympathize. ;-)

(Besides, I don't remember anyone starting a flame war on page 6 of the comments, so I think you're safe. XD)

I never even read the comments actually. Too damn much. I just noticed the lack of love 174 and his/her sympathizers were getting.

Point #2 - I agree. Well, to a lesser extent maybe - *I* ship, I have shipped, and I probably will. But it still gets on my nerves when shipping becomes the ONLY POSSIBLE FANNISH ACTIVITY. WTF with the shipping for shipping's sake? There are show/books/comic which I enjoy but where shipping doesn't work for me. Or where the amount of romance showed in canon is just fine and I don't need more. That's why I always praise genfic authors - there's never enough of that :-)

You know, it's not that I don't understand your frustration, but I am so fucking tired of these generalizations.

You're also diminishing the quality of fanfic in general by making it all about these sex fantasies you'd like to share with the rest of us for some reason.

Are you kidding? All fanfiction is about the "fantasies you'd like to share with the rest of us for some reason." You've decided that you're superior because your fantasies aren't sexual, but they're still fantasies. I'm a gen writer, too and I write fic because I came up with a really cool idea that I want to explore. As far as I can tell, that's what romance writers do, so I don't think I have any reason to feel superior to them.

As a desperate plea from someone who takes his writing seriously that I'm sure will fall on deaf ears: please, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, just take 10 minutes to think this shit out a little more and make it halfway reasonable. I don't care how hot it makes you, but your favorite pairing of the hero of some series with his nemesis PROBABLY is never going to happen if you do what a real writer does and ask, "Would the character actually do that or am I insisting upon it for my own sake?"

Because no het or slash writers actually do those things. It's totally impossible that they put in all this time and effort and came to the conclusion that, yes, these two characters would fuck. And all gen is perfectly IC and well-written --

Oh God, I couldn't get through that one with a straight face. Then again, I'm someone who started reading slash because it was, on average, better than the gen fic I could find.

As for number two... you're hanging around the wrong people. All the fans I know IRL don't know anything about shipping and look confused if I mention it. Maybe you should go and find some friends whose interests are more similar to your own?

I agree.

And then that's not even touching on the people who are writing about a character's relationship without it being sexual. Apparently people like that just don't exist. Either you write pure gen about action/adventure and beating people up or you write romantic or hardcore smut. THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN.

Actually, I can agree with you on most of your points. I'm sorry I made this specifically about any sexual fiction. But I do think I feel myself a bit superior to MOST romance writers (I shouldn't generalize too much, I realize), and that mainly stems from living with one. Pretty much everything she writes and reads, so far as I can tell, exists not because they wanted to explore some interesting new twist or idea, but because they get off on picturing two characters together and the sad excuse for a plot they usually invent is just there to prop up what they really wanted to get down to. I don't think it's arrogant, because that really is just writing 101 that is. It's crap. If you're into that sort of thing, be my guest, just don't call it writing or associate it with the label fandom as it has been transformed and I'm happy.

I'm the first to admit, however, when I encounter a GOOD romance fic. It's just exceedingly rare. In general I'd say the vast majority of fic is crap, from any category, but the caliber of crap goes above and beyond when you go over to the dark side, so to speak.

And actually, most of my friends IRL are on my side of fandom and rather ignorant about all of this (save perhaps my roommate I mentioned). It's just rather tough to find anything of that sort here in the magical land of the internet, which is a tad frustrating at times like, say, now when everyone is off on holiday and I'm left to fill the hours alone for three weeks.

So... you got this opinion that a general wide-spread group only writes to get off (ex. your opinion of the pairings aside, this is about your opinions about the motivations of the authors) because of the attitude of one person you know?

Two words:

Anecdotal
Evidence.

THE PLURAL OF ANECDOTE IS DATA

Pretty much everything she writes and reads, so far as I can tell, exists not because they wanted to explore some interesting new twist or idea, but because they get off on picturing two characters together and the sad excuse for a plot they usually invent is just there to prop up what they really wanted to get down to

This is really confusing to me. Are you claiming that people who read/write in other genres are doing it for pure reasons? What about all those people who watch action movies for the explosions -- are you superior to them, too? You shouldn't limit yourself to romance when there are so many other types of shallow, mindless enjoyment for you to criticize.

Besides, in the case you described, I'd say that the characters getting together is the idea they want to explore. Not all ideas focus on plot -- character development and relationships are important parts of any good story.

In general I'd say the vast majority of fic is crap, from any category, but the caliber of crap goes above and beyond when you go over to the dark side, so to speak.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I always thought it was easier to find good romance fic -- probably because there's more of it.

Then again I suspect that we have very different ideas as to what constitutes "quality".

I understand your frustration, but this comment is filled with so much anti-romance bias. Action/adventure writers can be just as stupid/illogical.

Plus, I think whether or not you're in a fandom that lends itself to shipping is the deciding factor of whether or not shipping is a big part of the fandom. I like a lot of things, and I've been asked about shipping pairs twice in my entire life (whether or not I shipped Mulder and Scully, and who my favorite Sailor Moon pairing was in a meme). Silent Hill fandom? We talk about the symbolism of bleeding walls. I've never once had a ship conversation with anybody in that fandom.

not even the intended [...] part of speech when you get down to it

How do you mean? The word "ship" is both a noun and a verb in standard English, and both a noun and a verb in fandom slang. Is there some other bizarre way it's used that I've either not seen or forgotten about?

Er, some other bizarre way it's used in fandom, that is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it short for 'relationship?'

I just wanted to say I very much agree with point number two. I honestly couldn't care less about shipping 99% of the time.

You know, every time I heard complaints about porn in fandom, I think, "so what?" Porn in fandom serves an important purpose.

By and large, if a guy wants to get off he can go down to his local naughty video shop or download porn from the internet. I've heard it said that, sexually speaking, men believe what they see and women believe what they hear, and I can buy that. I think there's a divide between the way most men and most women approach porn. 'Trashy' romance novels and strictly-porn fanfiction (fic being more accessible and more personal as it is self-authored, suited to your pet kink and online) are women's equivalent to porn videos - it may not be awesome all the time (though it can be) but people - yeah, mostly women - produce it because wow, guess what, most people want sex, and porn is a healthy outlet for that.

Complaining about prevalence of smutfic is as pointless and lame as complaining about the prevalence of porn videos. Welcome to the human race.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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