[ SECRET POST #4994 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4994 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 26 secrets from Secret Submission Post #715.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it's a real thing.

If you don't belong to a specific culture or come from a specific cultural background, especially one that is still stigmatized, marginalized, or disadvantaged in some way, but you copy elements of their culture to be cool, novel, or interesting, you may be appropriating from their culture.

Especially if what you are copying (and frequently changing to make more marketable) is sacred to them, or has been disparaged as uncivilized when they do it, but is suddenly valuable when turned into a decorative element or profit-making venture or status symbol for people outside that group.

Also anything that is taken by force from an "uncivilized" or poverty-stricken group and put on display for more "enlightened" "civilized" people, ie in art galleries and museums.

Stuff that isn't cultural appropriation: food (although jacking up the price of staple foods eaten by poor people when they become trendy=assholery) and anything where the group is happy to share (including via proselytizing) or sell stuff (traditional clothing, crafts, food, etc) to outsiders.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Like this. Thank you.

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[meadowphoenix]

Nah those things (food, anything sold, anything shared) are still being appropriated, and that's why this discussion stalls. Not all appropriation is bad. it's a fairly neutral phenomenon, until there are power disparities between two interacting cultures.

it's wild that people think food can't be appropriated!

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I assumed the ayrt meant in the ways of knickknacks and that which is being willingly sold by said culture. At that point it is not appropriation. As their culture is not being sold, but rather commercialized as trinkets one would take home as a memento for their vacation.


If you don't mind explaining, I'm curious about how food items could be appropriated?

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[meadowphoenix]

It's still appropriation (both the selling and food). In its basic sense, appropriation is a use of a cultural idea from a foreign culture, there's no secondary social aspect that will change the basic exchange.

If you mean is it still negative? That depends on the relative powers of the cultures in question. The cultural exchanges between french and england in fashion and food were appropriative, but mostly not in the negative sense we understand it, because despite the conflicts between the two countries, they had relatively similar cultural influence anyway (there are points at which the "mostly not negative" might not be true, i.e the Norman conquest). The exchanges between england and say....wales and ireland, were probably wildly negatively appropiative (both because of forced assimilation and destructive appropriation). And like....the mere fact that tea is considered quintessentially british, when those same britons feel comfortable telling south and east asians to get out......W I L D. I think tea is a good example of cultural appropriation of food and commercialization that has negative connotations during the British empire. I'm black so I'll say fried chicken, since foreign encounters to that type of food are mostly in the form of KFC, which has a white dude looking like a plantation owner as a mascot, although black people who are in foreign countries do tried to reclaim that from U.S. cultural spread.

Commercialization doesn't affect if the social phenomenon occurs or if it's negative. It's about relative power. if a country's only "valuable" product is tourism (which includes selling their culture to tourists), or that's the only viable way they've found to support their own economy without asking for more foreign aid and the reason for that is colonialism? how willing is that exactly? would they be able to stop the commercialization if they wanted to? Moreover there are secondary considerations about exotification from people from the culture who have dispersed from those tourist countries.

I'm not saying it's not complicated, but I am saying that you can't decide certain aspects of culture can't be appropriated. They way certain cultures have tried for dominance over others makes any such attempt, like by saying commercialization doesn't count, not a thoughtful examination of cultural exchange.

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[(Anonymous)]

Appropriation literally means taking for one's own use without permission, so anything that is shared or sold, or is not removed or devalued by duplication (such as food) is by definition not appropriation. Cultural exchange =/= cultural appropriation.

Re: Related to #6 - Do you believe in cultural appropriation?

[meadowphoenix]

you really think there's such a thing as cultural permission? what do you think it looks like? who do you think has authority to give it? do you think those things the UK took from middle eastern, mediterranean, and asian cultural sites didn't have individuals of those cultures sell them access and provide them passage back to the UK with full knowledge of what they were bringing? is that not sharing? when you say devalued, devalued to who?? how many people have to feel devalued before it becomes true?

even by definition, you won't see "appropriate" incorporate permission as an undeniable part of the understanding of the word (you'll see something like "typically without permission" which is a cue for connotation, not denotation). cultural exchange and appropriation are products of cross-cultural interaction, but appropriation has to do with integration of a an idea from another culture into a second culture. So food can absolutely be appropriated, and often is (and I don't mean this negatively). idk there's something very funny? weird? about suggesting that the very shady and aggressive uk chartered trading companies, and multiple, multi-year wars and between china and the uk which resulting in forced increased trade was china "giving permission" to the uk to incorporate tea into their national identity.