fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #717 ]

[ SECRET POST #717 ]

⌈ Secret Post #717 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Monster]

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[The Lion King]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 14 pages, 336 secrets from Secret Submission Post #103.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - personal attack ], [ 1 2 3 4 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I always wondered how people are able to love scum. I can't understand it, I don't want to understand it, and you absolutely disgust me.
I don't care if you say you "don't condone what they did", because in the end you do.
I wonder, have you learned in school about what they have done, how they slaughtered millions of innocent people, tortured them, did experiments on them, just for fun?
Because if you did and still say you "love" them, then I'm sorry, but you are sick, and you make ME sick.

And I'm going to stop here, or I'll just end up throwing insults at your head.

Amen!

Since this is fandom secrets, I'd assume this is a clumsily-worded secret to say that they love Nazis as fictional characters, actually. Which, yanno, I do too, though they make me sick IRL. They make amazingly horrible, interesting villains. Even heroes once they've been redeemed, in some stories (the computer game for "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" is a great example).

... Either that or they find them hot, which as the uniform is pretty damn hot, is very understandable even if one deplores everything else about them. But I highly doubt they love real life Nazis, as... that would not really be a Fandom Secret.

Just thought I'd pipe up so your faith in humanity didn't have to plummet and your blood pressure could go back down. D:

Edited 2008-12-23 10:35 (UTC)

It doesn't really comfort me, what you're saying. Because it still means that some people are capable of simply brushing aside what the Nazis did, and "appreciating" or whatever the hell they're doing (it makes me sick just to write this).
If people are capable of doing that, if they can find the uniform "hot" because they are so disassociated from what actually happened during the war.... well, they're sick and twisted. I reccommend reading Holocaust literature. At some point maybe the genocide will penetrate.

Uh, dude, what? Just because I think military uniforms are hot doesn't mean I go "OMG YAY WAR." Similarly, just because people find Nazi uniforms hot doesn't mean they ~omg brush aside~ the genocide. Aesthetically, Nazi uniforms are extremely attractive -- don't do much for me, but I can definitely see where it'd be thought of as hot. It doesn't help much that many fictional Nazis are played by or drawn as being extremely attractive as well. It's perfectly possible to say both "that man is sexy" and "I deplore everything he represents."

I'm sorry, but if you're placing so much weight on clothing, to the point where you're saying "if you think that uniform is hot you're belittling what happened in the war, and you're horrible sick and twisted people!" then you have issues. Yes, I can see a Nazi uniform and not jump automatically to visceral rage. That's sort of a healthy reaction. I can also see a swastika and not immediately feel sick to my stomach, because swastikas existed long, long before the Nazi party. It was perverted and developed a horrible stigma because of them, but it had a long and interesting history before that. Similarly, a Nazi uniform is clothing. Clothing has exactly the weight that a person puts on it -- no more, no less.

The Japanese did absolutely horrible things in that war, too. Are people not allowed to look at Japanese military uniforms and think that they are attractive?

I'm not placing so much emphasis on clothing. But if people's minds work in such a way that when they see a picture of Nazis their first association is "omg HOT" and not something more serious, then yes, these people have trivialized what happened, in my opinion.
I don't see it as being healthy, what can I say. The fact that people might want to appreciate the uniforms in the aesthetic sense is one thing - then again, considering that the secret's OP claimed to "love nazis"... again. They didn't say "I find these uniforms attractive even though the people wearing them did deplorable things". Lack of thought. And that's what bothers me.

Yeah, that I can see more. And I truly don't believe that the first thing people think when they see Nazis is "OMG HOT," even when they do find the uniforms hot. (Then again, I'm pretty sure if a Nazi was played by... idk Johnny Depp or something, the first thing many people would think would be either "wtf Nazi?" or "OMG HOT" just because it's Johnny Depp, but. MY POINT, THIS IS NOWHERE NEAR IT. /aside) Normally my first few thoughts have to do with "ugh, Nazis," and whatever interesting things about plot there may be if it's for a movie or something else fictional. A bit after that the "they look nice" comes in. XD;

I do think the OP just phrased it really, really badly, especially since they said they don't condone anything the Nazis did -- at that point, saying they "love Nazis" just seems to be disagreeing with what they just said, hence me thinking... actually, I'm leaning more toward thinking the OP means they love Nazis in fiction more than s/he does that the uniform's hot. I can see the lack of thought being completely off-putting, though. I just retain hope that the OP didn't mean they actually like REAL Nazis, since someone responded with "agreed!" and when asked about it, admitted that what they meant was thinking the uniforms are hot. People really need to be more careful about that, by a lot.

I'm sorry I got a bit bitchy there, too. I just do have a major love for stories with Nazis in them (they make good villains OR characters for redemption stories, IMO, if written well!), and know someone who absolutely loves the uniform, and really hate to think that we're getting judged as OMG SICK AND TWISTED for these things despite absolutely hating what happened in WW2 (which always leaves me feeling vaguely sick when thinking about it, personally).

I guess that really, part of what made me see red was the fact that it was phrased so horribly, and the OP didn't even seem to realize what s/he had written. And some of the "omg! squee!" comments just made me sick.

Personally, I find dealing with things that have Nazis in them difficult, even though I can watch movies that have them as villians and stuff, and I can understand why other people might like them when used as devices in fiction. I could probably never look at a picture of a Nazi and think they look nice, but if other people do... well, their issue, as long as they recognize the difficulty with it.

I guess the only thing is, if you're going to publicly admit that you like that sort of thing, you ARE going to get people thinking that you're sick and twisted. For me, because that level of disassociation is completely impossible, I just can't understand being able to appreciate it for aesthetic purposes. For me, it's like appreciating, say, a burn victim for their aestheticism.

Yeah, and especially when someone does have an issue with something like this -- which, well, everyone has their hot buttons, and this is definitely a reasonable one! -- it's harder to deal with it when people approach it with less sensitivity.

Then again, I haven't even seen the OP respond to any of this, which is starting to almost make me think they're a troll just trying to stir shit up, which sorta worked. And yeah, I don't think anyone looks at, like, a Nazi from a movie and goes "mmmm Nazi-ism, sexy" or anything, but it doesn't help that in quite a few cases the actors chosen to play evil characters really are hot. It's like the swarm of people who post "I'D SERIOUSLY HIT THE JOKER" using a Dark Knight picture; a good chunk of the time, I'd feel safe in responding with "no, you'd hit Heath Ledger," because... yeah. There's a difference there. People seem to have a hard time drawing that line, though, which is scary.

And I dunno, I can agree that some people are going to think badly of you no matter WHAT you like. Like... I don't know, just choosing an example from the fandom in your icon, I've seen people call Axel/Roxas shippers sick and disgusting because omg they love pedophilia, guys! And I know this sort of thing is way more serious than that, but when it comes down to fiction and aesthetics, it really isn't any more harmful and doesn't say anything more about the person who likes that particular thing than any other shallow fandom like.

As for the last, I 'unno, I guess I have to say... there is nothing aethetically pleasing about burn victims. Though some people do find guro oddly aesthetically pleasing -- not one of them, but I don't really raise an eyebrow at it since it's not like they like real people being harmed. In this case, it strikes me more as -- I don't know, knowing someone who's a burn victim, but still being able to look at a fire in a fireplace or a candle or something and think that it's incredibly pretty. No problems if you can't at that point, but it's just your own reaction to what happened that makes you unable to appreciate it, not the inherent attractiveness of fire itself.

GOD I TALK TOO MUCH.

Edited 2008-12-23 12:10 (UTC)

Yeah, I was also wondering if the OP was either scared off by the wank prospect, or just trolling. On the other hand, they did get some "squee me too", sooo....

I guess the thing is that when people fetishize a specific character, at least it's quite visible what it is they're fetishizing. They're not taking a movement and drooling over it, you know? But you're right, people don't seem to be able to draw the line.

Lately though I feel very often that "but it's my kink" is the fandom get-out-of-jail-free card. NOTHING is wrong u guys, it's just my kink! Snuff-pedophilia-incest porn is fine because it's just a kink.... yet then you look at all the recent Hetalia wank. I just don't know anymore. Is depravity allowed only to a certain level? I guess that's better than nothing.

The difference in analogies would be that fire didn't attack that burn victim out of a grudge, fire is neutral. But the Nazis did it completely on purpose, and had one of the most twisted ideologies possible. I'm sorry that my coherence isn't the greatest, I haven't slept too much these past few nights. I can accept that people fetishize Nazis (I have to, since they do), but that doesn't mean I don't wish they would just stop.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #717 ]

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