[ SECRET POST #5015 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5015 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________


03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #718.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/azJZn1i.png

[esteefee]

I think, and I may be wrong here, but some writers come to an established fandom where there are 5000 canon fic and they feel there's nothing new to write in canon that hasn't been done the best by BNFs so they just jump to AUs right away.

I tend not to agree with fanon's take anyway so it's never been a problem for me. But once I run out of canon things to say, I really enjoy writing AUs. 200 stories and 10 years in, I kind of have to.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I understand where you're coming from and in no way am I trying to tell you how to write fic. 200 stories in, you've definitely got to experiment a bit! Actually, I tried to address these points in the secret, but I may have failed to do so well. I do understand wanting to add something new when a fandom has been plumbed to the depths, and I understand having said all you can say on your own in canon; what I'm specifically addressing here is AU fic that doesn't really meet either criteria. At risk of being scolded for being vague, my two current fandoms are relatively modest and a good 80% of fic is AU, without exaggeration. It's become expected for one ship especially to jump to AUs without even a single drabble set in canon establishing any of their thoughts about the characters prior to the author basically making them OCs in their AU. I suppose it's their right to do that and it's lead to some neat original fiction for many, but after practically an entire fandom experience of lackluster AUs that feel copy-pasted between every fandom with little to no thoughtful characterization, I do feel a bit like there isn't much attempt being made at even writing the characters. In these cases, I have to disagree everything has been said by others or that they've said all they can say personally. I also feel that "canon divergent" is different from an AU as I'm describing here, but appreciate they overlap... I think an author could always splinter off from what's been said with a new plot point and explore "AU" territory without making the characters unrecognizable merpeople college students with brand new backstories and goals.

Or... bonus secret I guess, I'd be fine with characters being fairly far removed from canon if they were well-realized and well-written. Again, I'm sure in mega fandoms this must exist and I'm sure there are truly good passion projects like this in smaller fandoms, but I have yet to come across it.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I agree with people about mundane AUs for supernatural/fantasy canons. Why would you want to take one of the coolest and most defining aspects of your characters and get rid of it? That's how I feel.

But when it comes to supernatural/fantasy AUs of mundane canons, I am all in. Why wouldn't I want to read about the characters having magic, or telepathy, or being vampires, or whatever? To me that just sounds like adding more fun and coolness to the mix.

If it's badly written, then sure, I'll pass. But I've read plenty of excellent supernatural/fantasy AUs.

[tabaqui]

Pretty much this!

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I agree with people about mundane AUs for supernatural/fantasy canons. Why would you want to take one of the coolest and most defining aspects of your characters and get rid of it? That's how I feel.

I think a big issue there is often that while a lot of fans may love those elements in the canon, and may have been drawn to the canon because of them, they feel intimidated at the thought of trying to recapture them in their own fics, and feel they won't be able to do those worlds and fantasy elements and such justice.

Hence, just taking the characters and putting them in a world they can easily write about.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a big issue there is often that while a lot of fans may love those elements in the canon, and may have been drawn to the canon because of them, they feel intimidated at the thought of trying to recapture them in their own fics

I think you're right. I just don't really understand how certain characters even feel like the same person when you change that much about them.

Like, I struggle to write Tony Stark, because I don't know how to write believably about being the head of a giant tech corporation, or being a tech genius who is always inventing things, or how a team of super heroes actually operates on a day to day basis. I am so bad at writing that stuff convincingly that it's painful. But Tony Stark doesn't feel like Tony Stark if he's not a genius, billionaire, superhero. Take that stuff away and he's just some guy with Tony Stark's name.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

That's a very valid point. Indeed, some characters separated from their worlds just aren't going to be the same by nature, and so it does lose something in the process. Perhaps there can be authors who manage to make that transition work (maybe not the superhero part, but there might be a way to make Tony Stark's genius and billionaire elements work in a modern AU and still be true to the character. Seeing how he handles doing that stuff without the superhero element could potentially be intriguing to explore in its own right).

But yeah, most of the time, it doesn't seem to translate as well when you drop them into your typical modern world, and I do agree that more often than not, the character reads more as an OC in those moments. As you note, that's a tough element to get right with certain characters. I can think of some in my fandoms that I would struggle with in that regard, too. Which is why I stay away from writing those kinds of stories :p.

[(Anonymous)]

if it's a fantastical setting changed to a different fantastical setting(fantasy > sc-fi, for example) then i can be into that. but i'm with you on being completely unable to understand the appeal taking a fantasy/sci-fi setting and stripping that away for a run-of-the-mill modern/coffee shop au.

it just screams to a lack of creativity and honestly, most of them i've tried reading have been so goddamn boring i don't even know why they're popular. you can have a plot in something that isn't action-based sure, but these kinds of fic never do.

[(Anonymous)]

, I agree with people about mundane AUs for supernatural/fantasy canons. Why would you want to take one of the coolest and most defining aspects of your characters and get rid of it? That's how I feel.

I don't have much of a horse in that race, but I find it funny/entertaining when it's done right. My favorite example (and it's canon, so not a fic, but a good example of why I think it's funny this remove the supernatural element and make things normal) is the anime The Devil is a Part Timer -- fanservice bits aside, it's a funny anime -- the devil is banished from the netherworld, and ends up working at a McDonald's, so we see his high-strung perfectionist mercenary attitude applied in the most mundane setting ever. And trying to see a supernatural being adjust to being normal etc. It's just funny (to me). But it depends how it's done and what not. I understand what you mean.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time for liking this kind of AU. It's totally a you-do-you thing. But I don't think the type of original fiction story you describe is the same thing at all. The whole point, in original fiction, is that this character who has powers (or is special in some way), has to live as a normie. The premise isn't, "Imagine this character never was special and never had powers, they've always just been a normie." The premise is, "They were special and had powers but now they can't use them, or they've lost them for some reason, and they have to live as a normie."

In order for original fiction to be comparable to a fanfic AU, you'd have to have a show where the first two seasons were Merlin, and then suddenly in season three the show became Dawson's Creek. Same actors, same character names, but now everyone's a normal high school student.

[meadowphoenix]

Why would you want to take one of the coolest and most defining aspects of your characters and get rid of it? That's how I feel.
because keeping those characters in a form of IC in a situation where they have less power is really revealing analysis of character imo. Which to many people, like me, is really engaging. I looooove character analysis within the concept of fiction (as opposed to like...an essay).

[(Anonymous)]

because keeping those characters in a form of IC in a situation where they have less power is really revealing analysis of character

That's nice. But the vast (and I mean vaaaast) majority of the time, the author appears to have made no real attempt to keep the characters any form of IC. They're just blank slates wearing the canon character's names.

It takes deft character work to remove fundamentally formative aspects of a character's life and still keep them in character.

[meadowphoenix]

okay? the question was just about motivation, but I'm sure that sucks and also sure that adding some element like magic for instance to something non-magical does not fix any character problems and can often make the characterization several times worse because there is no genre not full of tropes that bad authors badly integrate, lmao.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad some interesting conversation came from this. I understand your points, but I do still stand by my point about fantasy AUs often being worse than people will admit. Not to sound like snob, but I do think it can be easy to confuse "cool world" with good character writing. I think there's actually a pretty strong general consensus in fandom, save for one specific section, that putting Star Trek or Harry Potter characters in office jobs can be boring-- but there's less consensus that putting the characters from Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul, Mad Men or Shameless into fantasy/supernatural AUs can still end in mediocre storytelling even if it's "cool" to think about who would be the vampire and who would be the werewolf. I don't care for coffeeshops or colleges either, but in my opinion a lot of these realistic characters (I mean semi-realistic, obviously television still has dramatic plots, but they're not magical and are meant to be based in some human drama) get reshaped into OCs in a supernatural/fantasy/sci-fi setting as well, because it becomes about the plot and the universe instead of being about the character. For some canons, these things are balanced well-- but for fanon, I think it can be just as tricky to make Fiona Gallagher really feel like herself if the story requires so much scaffolding and worldbuilding around this futuristic civilization fighting in space or something.

Not necessarily across the board, of course, but a good bit of the time I do think that seems to be the case. I'd disagree that it's always adding something "better" to the canon if the strength of the canon isn't really congruent with something like a fantastical lost royalty mermaid plot.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I wrote MOSTLY canon-based fic but I think my AU fics were more popular. Personally, I find I read canon-based than AU, but I get really excited about worldbuilding, so playing in somebody else's playground and making it my own is part of the fun.

[(Anonymous)]

Hah. I'm one of those who fucking hates mundane settings. You should see my saved fills for "other tags to exclude" in AO3

-AU -college -alternate -high school -coffee

And I've got some big fuckin' feelings about it.

I'm super happy our authors are all in college or high school and working minimum wage jobs and everything but you don't have to write LITERALLY the only shit you know! Fuck, man. You ripped our characters out of a fascinating world just to give them your boring life! SO BORING.

HERE'S THE THING. Some of these characters are inexorably linked to their origins. There are 7 1/2 fics for my favorite book, but a good half of those fuckers are AUs and I hate it, because the character origins inform EVERYTHING about who they are. If you strip that of them, you better be prepared to write a fucking novel about what led them to being the same goddamned person.

[(Anonymous)]

Well this is what happens when I write comments early in the morning. The word I wanted was "inextricably*"

So here's my many-hours-later correction :P