[ SECRET POST #5019 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5019 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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04. [SPOILERS for Mulan (2020)]



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05. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]



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06. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]



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07. [WARNING for discussion of child abuse]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #718.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You're equating things that are problematic when people do them in real life and things that people write about. Nobody has any difficulty understanding the distinction when it's something like murder. Murder is bad when it happens in real life, but writing a story about a murder is just writing a story where something bad happens and doesn't mean the writer has done anything bad themselves. Take that concept and apply it to everything, and you will finally understand how fiction fundamentally works.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

Let's not go too far here.

Fiction is fiction, but fiction also applies to real life, and there is some fiction that really does promote, or at least intend to promote, bad real life views or even morally bad actions, and we should be able to have a serious discussion about it without just falling back on fiction is fiction.

[(Anonymous)]

To be clear, I'm not referring to original fiction where the author clearly has a vision and place and reason and a meaning for everything. I'm talking about fanfic writers who just slap a pairing together just because, and not because they care about previously established canon, or the many ways the pairing doesn't work, especially when they're trying to base the relationship on previously established canon. Just because I personally object to parent/child pairings doesn't make them not problematic. And I'm well aware there are exceptions.

Your final line comes off as really rude, and I don't appreciate being made out to be a person who doesn't know the difference between reality and fiction.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not AYRT, but I find your reasoning odd. Why would you make an exception for original fiction? How do you know when the author "clearly has a vision and place and reason and a meaning for everything" and isn't just writing something because they're into it? Maybe fic authors who write problematic stuff also have non-kink reasons that aren't apparent -- if they included a manifesto with their ship fics would it make the stories acceptable?

[(Anonymous)]

But people do find certain murders in fiction to be problematic and a reflection of the author's attitude. Tropes such as "Black Guy Dies First" and "Women in Refrigerators" come to mind.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

To expand on this further. Very few people argue that people who write fictional murder are murders in real life. What we do say is that when you do studies of works across entire genres, there are certain forms of bias that stick out. For "Women in Refrigerators," the problems were that 1. women in DC and Marvel already were given much less editorial love in terms of titles, frames, and lines of dialogue, 2. women in DC and Marvel were routinely murdered or tortured as a cheap plot point for male characters to have angst, and 3. the perspectives of the women in that narrative were rarely developed.

The same is true with "bury your gays" and "queer-coded villain." Or how crime dramas often normalize violations of suspect rights for the greater good. It's really rare that the writer is out there killing off gay people or interrogating people without probable cause. But the writer is reflecting and supporting cultural biases that LGBTQ lives are tragic and racial minorities more likely to break the law so aggressive police tactics are sometimes justified.

[(Anonymous)]

Murder is bad when it happens in real life, but writing a story about a murder is just writing a story where something bad happens and doesn't mean the writer has done anything bad themselves. Take that concept and apply it to everything, and you will finally understand how fiction fundamentally works.

Look, antis suck and I don't agree with them, but this argument is incredibly obtuse, and always has been. Ask just about any anti if they object to erotic depictions of murder and they will say an emphatic yes. Ask just about any anti if they object to romantic depictions of uxoricide (wife murder) and they will say an emphatic yes.

Most antis do not object to the subject matter that is being portrayed, they object to how that subject matter is being portrayed. This whole "if you're an anti you'd better not watch horror movies" argument is apples to oranges. They're horror movies; the way the content is being depicted is in the name: HORROR. They're not called sexy-swoon-time-hands-in-your-pants movies.

Antis think the way bad things are depicted in fiction should at least roughly align with the real-world nature of those things. I will say it again: antis suck and I don't agree with them. But their stance isn't that hard to understand if you're not being willfully obtuse.