[ SECRET POST #5038 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5038 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #721.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/40BNtA2.jpeg

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a misogynist now? Huh, learn something new everyday, I guess.

[feotakahari]

I read this sci-fi series once where the MC kept getting loaded down with more and more powers that allowed him to instantly solve every plot complication. By the end, everyone else was helpless before the horrific monsters from beyond the boundaries of the universe, and he was blowing the monsters up by thinking at them. I think that’s some part of what a Sue is.

[sparklywalls]

I've seen Canon Sue/Stu levelled at male characters, though not as much as at female characters and it's usually push-back from people trying to get others to realise overpowered male characters exist too.

Maybe it's not the right term but boringly overpowered canon characters with superficial "flaws" definitely do happen. But equally I get frustrated when it's often just an accusation you see for a female character who isn't doing anything a powerful cool hero hasn't done at some point and very few people complained. So I do get where you're coming from there.

[(Anonymous)]

It can't be misogynist because there are gendered terms for Sue/Stu's. Just cause your fav is a canon sue doesn't make everyone else a terrible person by hurting your feelings by pointing it out.

[silverr]

I suppose because it feels that overall the Mary Sue charge is tossed more often at "overpowered & perfect in every way" female characters than at "overpowered & perfect in every way" male characters?

[greghousesgf]

I'm not sure how it can be misogynistic if male characters get called canon Sues too.

[(Anonymous)]

Canon Sue's are definitely a thing, where a character is just too perfect at everything and their flaws aren't actually flaws, but at the same time I get the frustration because the term Sue is thrown so willy-nilly at female characters that I tend to ignore that word entirely these days.

For me it's just another word, in a long line of words, that have lost all meaning in fandom because people keep misapplying it.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this. I mean, OP has a point that "sue" is thrown haphazardly at every protagonist by people who don't understand the definition of the term, but far far far more common are flawless overpowered protagonists with zero flaws and, regardless of gender or even species, are actually deserving of the label and the baggage that comes with it.

[(Anonymous)]

I will agree that a lot of people don't get what a protagonist is. But it is a thing that exists. As long as authors write books with protection from the editors there will be canon sues.

[(Anonymous)]

The sexism/misogyny part is only true sometimes. Yes, a lot of people, especially men, who rail against female protagonists for being Mary Sues are being sexist. That is very common. But not every person who calls a character in a piece of original fiction a Mary Sue is being sexist. I disagree with their use of the term, but I don't believe their thinking MUST be sexist and can be explained in no other way.

Beyond that, though, I wholeheartedly agree with you. An over-powered, overly perfect, or bland but heavily praised and focused on character in original fiction is just a poorly written character. Mary Sue is a fanfic term. It was invented to described a specific trope that occurred within fanfiction, and it fundamentally changes the nature of what a Mary Sue is if you apply the term to original fiction. If you apply the term Mary Sue to original fiction is becomes so broad and so utterly subjective as to be completely meaningless.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I only ever call the males "Canon Sues" because the point is that male characters get away with the shit female characters get shit on for.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, don't you sound ten years old.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't you sound male...

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. But you're getting younger and younger.

[chamonix]

I don't know how anyone can disagree with this. It's patently true.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel sorry for you, winding up in 2020 of all years when you got in your time machine in 2002.

[chamonix]

Bro what the fuck are you babbling about

[(Anonymous)]

But not all protagonists are canon Sues. And not all canon Sues are protagonists. The worst canon Sues are the characters that aren't the protagonist but get more spotlight moments than the protagonist.

[(Anonymous)]

Canon Sues absolutely are a thing, esepcially in franchises with multiple authors. Take for instance World of Warcraft, where the writers love to stick their OCs into every plot. One author even made up a time-travelling anomaly to justify his self-insert being at the center of events that were supposed to be taking place 10,000 years before his birth. It was so random that he didn't even bother with an explanation for what that anomaly was or why it was there. It was there, because he needed it to make the lore all about his self-insert.

[meadowphoenix]

I only don't like the term because that archetype is legit a genre convention in many many genres including sci-fi, tech thrillers, cozy murder mysteries and the like and they serve a genuine function in fiction (they allow the audience to observe the action where they can feel tension but aren't threatened and that can allow for interesting dynamics, literary philosophies, world mechanics, etc) that they don't necessarily serve in fanfiction, where the point is usually to let your fave be awesome.

[chamonix]

AMEN. Did I write this secret in my sleep? Using the term 'Mary-Sue' for original characters is SUCH a bugbear for me and I think it's completely asinine to ignore that 90% of the time it has misogynist roots. Look at the shit levelled at Rey in the Star Wars sequels. I never once heard anyone call Anakin a Mary-Sue for single-handedly defeating an entire battledroid command ship at 9 YEARS OLD, or Luke for bullseyeing the exhaust port of a death star despite never having flown a starship.

People also seem to completely ignore the author-insert element of the original meaning of 'Mary-Sue', as well. A Mary-Sue isn't just any female character who dares to actually be competent in whatever she attempts. It's usually also some kind of wish-fulfillment vehicle for the writer.

Until the day I see John Wick get multiple thousands of angry Youtube videos describing in detail how he's a lazy Mary-Sue character, I'm going to go ahead and assume most people who use that marker are sexist assholes.

[(Anonymous)]

oh hai art from 16personalities