fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5068 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5068 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[19 Days]

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02.

[Love is Hard for an Otaku]

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03.

[The Three Investigators books]

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04.

[Princess Weiyoung]

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05.

[The Witches]

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06.

[Watcher Entertainment]

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07.

[Mike Chen/Strictly Dumpling]

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08.

[Event Horizon]

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09.

[19 Days]

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10.

[The Killing]

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11. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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12. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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13. [WARNING for mention of rape]

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14. [WARNING for mention of underage fiction]

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15. [WARNING for mention of underage fiction]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #725.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Disclaimer: I don't watch Supernatural and only know about it from internet chatter.

This is the first time I've seen Dean characterised as anything but a poor put-upon martyr too good for the rest of his family.

Tell me more, Nonny!

As a big fan of Dean (yes, his flaws etc.) I'm also curious -- I was never into bashing any of the characters, so I'm curious as to what's the word on the street regarding aka what smack are people talking about my man lol

i wrote a bit below, but I'm always happy to opine, lol

Background: Dean and Sam are monster hunters, raised like this after their mother was killed by a demon in Sam's room (which made their father suspicious about Sam). Their upbringing was straight military, where their only loyalty was supposed to be toward family. This straight up fucked them both up. I think fandom doesn't seem to understand how this fucked up Dean's relationship with Sam however.

I think it's clear that Dean was parentified, given completely undue responsibility for Sam and blame for perceived faults in looking after Sam, but fandom tends to see that as if he protected Sam (from their dad is the implication) and took on all negative consequences of this and it is abundantly clear that he mostly didn't protect Sam, that what that responsibility did was make him overly invested in controlling how Sam acted, as a proxy for their controlling father so that he would get the crumbs of praise their dad occasionally doled out. Of course, that meant that there was a corresponding resentment of Sam, as the powerless party, both for being powerless and not acting like it (Sam tends toward independent decision-making lol) and for causing Dean problems because Sam consistently challenged their Dad, AND for the fact that all of this obviously this put a lot of negative scrutiny and therefore negative attention on Sam which left very little attention at all for Dean. Sam's resentment of Dean follows from this also as Sam feels like he was essentially treated like a problem child for things that wouldn't be problematic in any other family, like wanting stability, not wanting to be lied to, and wanting to do something other than monster hunting, and that Dean acted as an enforcement officer for their Dad. Note, this doesn't mean there isn't genuine and DEEP affection between them there, but it does mean that the dynamic easily gets toxic. I don't blame fandom entirely for siding with Dean here, the show does valorize faaaaaammmmmmiiiillly every chance they get, and Dean is the character who advocates for keeping that sort of dynamic (he's also essentially Han Solo in character and super hot so, you know, understandable).

Underlying ALL of this is the fact that Sam is associated with evil, and they are both being deliberately and completely manipulated by supernatural forces to play out Lucifer (Sam) and Michael (Dean) cosplay, which they are both blindly trying to avoid, so their respective resentment buttons are being majorly pushed. Moreover, Sam gets "addicted" (the depiction is definitely mean to be addiction, but it's physical more than any of the more negative psychological components) to demon blood and it's a full shitshow. Dean being controlling and manipulative is on the surface a response to this situation, as he is trying to prevent Sam from being evil, and so you can see how a fandom would see this as loving and not the frequent violations of Sam's autonomy that actually occurs.

Here's a minor instance: Sam finds out that he had demon blood dripped into his mouth as a baby. Dean independently also finds this out, also. This is related to Sam being destined for evil, as it gives him powers. Dean and Sam are fighting about the powers because Dean doesn't want Sam to use them and Sam sees them as an asset (he can cast out demons, which is.....their job). So when Dean finds out that Sam didn't tell him about the demon blood, he berates Sam even though he already knew and had no intention of telling Sam.

Here's another more major instance: Sam is frequently lying to Dean about buffing his powers with demon blood (again while this is definitely a physical dependency, and lying is a dick thing to do, the most negative consequence is that he's not as good at hunting while waiting for more blood. Sam is pretty much the same person). At some point Dean and one of their main support systems, Bobby, decide they have to act (Sam drinks demon blood in front of Dean to exorcise a demon with his powers which saves them and Dean think this is too far), so they forcibly dry Sam out by locking him in a underground bunker. The dry-out is horrifying, and at one point it looks like Sam might die. Dean says that at least he dies human. You can see that fandom might find this an entirely sympathetic position but I am fucking horrified that Dean sees himself as this type of arbiter over Sam's life. Dean is being deeply manipulated here (angels, including Cas, are telling him that if he doesn't control Sam they'll kill him), but the manipulation is to amplify a impulse that already exists within him and within their dynamic.

You can ask me anything you want to know about tho!

That is kinda heavy. Sounds like a super complicated relationship. (I hadn't heard about the demon blood before.)

It's very much a cheesy horror show about how bad coping mechanisms in response to trauma of ALL sorts (and a good dose of toxic masculinity) can ruin whole lives and maybe the world, lmao. My problem is the rest of the premise, that familial love ultimately will save it, because every attempt the show makes to challenge that premise of love comes back to how the toxicity shouldn't matter.

All I see here is how people can watch the same show and interpret things so differently because I honestly don't understand how you can watch it and come to any of the conclusions about Dean that you have.

I mean, you see what I wrote here, what's wrong about it? Do you think Dean was justified in engineering a situation in which he controls Sam's literal life? In which he decides if Sam is allowed to live? He does this multiple times over 15 seasons, the most egregious of which is the Gadreel affair where he prevents Sam from dying, gaslights Sam when he thinks something is wrong, and then when things predictably go off the rails, he then decides that Sam might have to die if they can't control Gadreel. Is that not Dean attempting to have ultimate control over Sam as a person?

[ SECRET POST #5068 ]

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