fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #729 ]

⌈ Secret Post #729 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Doctor Why]

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[Hetalia]

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[Failure to Launch]

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[Megaman]

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[Stargate Atlantis]

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[Death Note, here we go again]

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[Hetalia]

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[Star Trek: DS9; Odo/Kira Nerys]

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[Revolutionary Girl Utena]

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[Supernatural]

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[A Christmas Story]

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[CLAMP]

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[TVXQ: Micky Yoochun & Xiah Junsu]

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[Blackpool]

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[Junjou Romantica]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 19 pages, 459 secrets from Secret Submission Post #105.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Big women CAN get the same positive feedback. No one is arguing differently. But why does it need to be REAL women? Why not just call them BEAUTIFUL women? Why put down ANY group of women?

Exactly. "Real women" isn't positive feedback at all. It's like saying "bipedal women." It's only a compliment when you understand that it means "real" as opposed to: women who are thin because they're fake/starve themselves/get surgery OR have a body without curves or breasts and are therefore not feminine. It doesn't work without the understood reference to the women who aren't real. Sadly, it seems like nobody could come up with a word that just said beautiful and also embraced the larger body size.

But when most people talk about "real" women, they ARE referring to Hollywood skinny and not healthy skinny, or gym going skinny, or any one on the thin-but-curvy scale; they mean actual "eating disorder and/or coke/heroin addiction speculation because no one in real life is built that way AND healthy" skinny. This is sort of understood. The "real" women thing was a way to reclaim the feminine figure as more than twiggy, where it has largely stood in popular media since the model of the same name. When fandom calls out every other female as having an eating disorder, it is usually "Just Jealous" syndrome, and I can definitely see the hurt in that. But IRL women with curves and weight are scrutinized more and subject to worse personal attacks than women who occasionally are told to eat a sandwich. Seriously, if this is a game of who is more oppressed than who, well, I believe skinny girls who feel offended by the "real" women mantra, and I feel for them but I am going to side with the heavy girls every time.

I agree that the heavier girls have more of a problem--I don't think there's any contest in terms of who has the easier time of it. But "real women" is used as a synonym for larger body type in a lot of places.

It's like when thin people are described as "healthy." Sure if called on it they'd say "Oh, but it's implied that we only mean healthy compared to people who are a certain weight because they live an unhealthy lifestyle." But there's probably very few heavier people who have had their size judged as proof of their "unhealthy lifestyle".

The thing is we shouldn't have to take sides between the two. "Real" is still referencing some ideal that the person isn't instead of saying something positive about what the person is. Unfortunately any words that do that tend to be seen as insults. I remember Margaret Cho said years ago that she was once referred to as "zaftig." Zaftig means pleasantly plump, full-bodied, well-proportioned. But her response was: Isn't that German for big fat pig?

But there's probably very few heavier people who have had their size judged as proof of their "unhealthy lifestyle".

Oops--typo. I meant to say there were few heavier people who HAVEN'T had their size judged as proof of an unhealthy lifestyle. Because they're judged all the time on it, as if being larger obviously means they're lazy and gluttonous no matter how healthy their lifestyle might really be.

You are absolutely right. The judgment function always seems to be on, and while I don't usually truck with the "we're all sisters" mantra that gets floated around in some circles, I agree here. Issues about weight and femininity can be incredibly destructive and choosing sides doesn't help anyone. However, the secret maker, and a number of posters here HAVE tried to make it seem as if "real" women is a bigger insult than what happens on a daily basis to heavier women. And yeah, when that happens, I WANT to choose a side. Because a larger person could have thyroid issues, or be on medication that causes rapid weight gain, or not have access to a safe place to exercise because a gym might be too expensive and their neighborhood is crummy, or they're actually too busy to work out and not lazy, or all the food that's bad for you is the cheapest and fastest and you once again lack time and money. Or maybe they just have a curvier build, or a stockier one, and most clothes for women aren't built with those bodies in mind. Or maybe they are lazy and gluttonous. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with dignity.

Thanks for being rational here, btw. This is a touchy subject, and I'm definitely going to approach it more gently, with less judgment for both sides, from now on.

[ SECRET POST #729 ]

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