fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #733 ]

[ SECRET POST #733 ]

⌈ Secret Post #733 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102. [broken]

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103.

[Dan wright and Steve Marsh. Crash Test Dummies/Big Cook Little Cook.]

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104.

[Dr. Who]

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105.

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106.

[Watchmen Movie]

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107.

[Merlin]

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108.

[To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar]

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109.

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110.

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112.

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[Madhuri Dixit (Actress/dancer)]

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118.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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119. [repeat]

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120.

[South of Nowhere/Matt Cohen]

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[Dave Gahan/Depeche Mode]

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[Lord of the Rings]

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[Garfield And Friends (US Acres)]

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127.

[Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal Rising, Hannibal]

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128.

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131.

[Watchmen]

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132.

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133.

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134. [repeat]

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135.

[James Bond/"Goldeneye, 006x007]

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136.

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[Masters of the Universe]

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154.

[Oz]

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[Tales of the Abyss]

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[Dynasty Warriors/RoTK]

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163.

[Amanda Palmer/Regina Spektor]

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[Frasier]

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165.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 167 secrets from Secret Submission Post #105.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Nope, but I read all the comments on this post, and saw it more than once. Hence the edit. "omg she is such a mary sue!!" Yeah, how? (Not asking you, obviously).

How can you say she's unnecessary to the plot of 385/2 when you don't know the plot of that game yet? I mean, how exactly is that an informed opinion rather than a kneejerk, wanky one? Because... I do think you're, well, making your own wank here! Besides that, I find getting further into character backstory, well, interesting. I would like to remind you that when Namine was introduced in CoM, people thought she was a mary sue -- random sparkly arteeest girl who apparently was Sora's omg bff omg totally unnecessary why do we need another person in Sora and Riku's backstory?! ... only then it actually was all plot and epic mindfuck and Nomura playing with those very ideas of the insertion and how messed up it is (as well as on the falliablity of memory). You know?

I mean, maybe it's just me, but as a fan of the series, I kind of trust the director and writers to do something good with her. The things fandom is assuming she's going to do is something they have not, historically, done: it's not like they've tossed in unnecessary backstory characters yet. Except maybe Sephiroth.

ETA: Also, uh, why does her role need to be smaller for her to not be a mary sue?

Edited 2009-01-08 05:05 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm not so charitable toward the creators, all things considered, so I can't share your sentiments. For me, the difference between the events in Chain of Memories and the events in 385/2 is that the events in the latter game are already supposed to be in the past. As such, I expect that whatever actually goes down there will somehow have to sync with what we know will later occur.

The introduction of a new character with huge importance to the plot (according to the marketing) without any mention of same in any of the earlier games feels jarring, and throws it all out of step. Basically, I've had enough time to reconcile myself with the events in KH1, CoM, and KH2, using the cast that was given to me. I didn't need Xion to do that, whereas I can't have CoM without Namine. Namine was an introduction. The characters of Birth by Sleep, despite obvious connections to existing characters, are largely introductions. Xion is, at best, an insertion. That is why she seems unnecessary.

I don't deny that in order to pull off the character, they will have come up with something pretty special... but since I never wanted any of that to begin with, I don't much care what they do. And yes, of course, this is all me. You mentioned getting into character backstory... well, that's what I was expecting for this game, backstory of currently underdeveloped characters. It seems now that due to the focus being shifted onto Xion, that aspect will not be emphasized as much, and I'm disappointed.

Throughout all this, I've tried not to use the word 'retcon', but when it comes down to it, this is the core of the issue. It's Nomura, it's retcon... I have reservations.

I guess we'll have to disagree! Other people are often part of previous parts of people's lives. If there's a reason they HAVEN'T been talking about her, I'm very curious about that. But yeah, I suppose it comes down to me trusting the guy I'm a fan of. [shrugs] You don't have to want change for it to be good for the story.

Doesn't seem to me like focus is "shifted" to Xion. It seems like focus is "who is she, and why is she important to the characters the story is about". Which... is still about those characters. And again. You can't say she's unnecessary, or even that she seems unnecessary, fairly -- you don't know the plot. You know where they started, from one brief scene; you know where they ended up. I don't see the point in assuming it'll suck instead of, well, waiting to see what, yeah, they do with her. KH is, ultimately, the story of journeys.

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of retcon. Retcon is replacing past events which are canon with new past events and claiming they are canon instead. What Nomura is doing is filling in gaps of unwritten time. He said from the start he was doing that.

And I think it's fair to have reservations. I don't; Nomura hasn't done badly by KH so far. But at the same time, if you're bitching about wank in the fandom, you shouldn't go bringing it or inspiring it yourself. A positive attitude goes a long way.

Are you OP, btw?

I am. In truth, by 'wank in the fandom', I just meant 'more shipping drama'. 'The AkuRoku thing' is a flippant way of putting it, but what it means is that my feeling about Xion is colored by my fears for the fandom. Her existence will bring (and has already brought) a new female character for people to bash, and, on a selfish level, "competition" for my preferred pairing. Selfishly, I'm glad Xion isn't a boy.

That's actually why I didn't want to use the word 'retcon'. There could be retcon in the game, which is what I'm afraid of, but I don't know that yet. For now, it's just the feeling that instead of introducing a new character to develop existing plot threads, they're spinning new threads just to support the existence of the new character.

Ahh, gotcha. See, for me, part of what I find so frustrating about the instant, not-having-even-played-the-game hate-on of Xion? Is that it's bashing her. Assuming a character's unnecessary, writing her off before even giving her a chance? Seems to me to be contributing to the problem, not the solution, you know? And re: shipping drama... yeah, probably. It's a big fandom. People argue every ship. I write just about every ship (Exaggeration, but not by much. I have trouble thinking of pairings I haven't dabbled in) so I've seen a lot of it from a lot of different sides *g*. I don't... get upset by shipping wank anymore, because so much of it comes down to "I have what I like, so you can have what you like, just don't get heated up in my business". *g* Sure, I get annoyed if people get up into my space and tell me they hate something I like, but... I really doubt you'll lose fanworks for your pairing anyway. I mean, you ship Axel/Roxas, not, idk, Axel/Kairi or something with next to no works. *g* It's the small pairing fans who'll have real worries of competition.

Though I admit I fear lots of the "SEE THEY'RE NOT THOSE ICKY GAYS" coming out of it, but that's not the character's fault. *g*

Okay, that's fair. (re the retcon fears)

Haha, perhaps we just have different opinions on what level of severity constitutes "bashing". I myself don't think that saying I hate (strongly dislike, if you prefer) Xion because I feel her character is unnecessary for xyz reasons (and I do feel that, with reasons that seem legitimate to me, there's no getting around it) is bashing her, any more than someone saying they dislike Kairi because they find her boring is bashing.

At least I could have called her a bitch, a ho, a Mary Sue, or some other label randomly affixed simply to scratch the hate-itch. At worst, I could have written a fic (falsely?) depicting Xion as exactly that kind of man-stealing bitch... I mean, isn't this the staple of Kairi-bashing in this fandom?

Hmm, so you're saying that I'm going about this the wrong way? I mean, I'm also a fan of Axel/Namine, maybe people would be more understanding if I took up that underappreciated cause instead? Very interesting.

Okay, you're right, "Bashing" is too strong, but saying you strongly dislike a character because you fear the author may be giving her a role you don't think is necessary, especially when you don't know the game's plot? I don't think that's exactly a treatment of the character herself, you know? Like, oh, FF8 fandom always kind of made me "..." when people say they hate Rinoa because Squall acts funny around her (I mean, at worst, shouldn't they hate Squall for that?)

Bashing is, yeah, that kind of thing. But I also find that a subtler form of it involves trying to claim a character is totally unnecessary even if they end up being vital. To be fair, I might be bringing some of my annoyance at Digital Devil Saga fandom into this, but going overboard with tearing a character apart as opposed to overwriting/erasing the character seem to me two ways to express the same sentiment of: "I don't like the fact the character exists in the series/gets in the way of what I play it for" as opposed to "I don't like the character because of traits inherent to the character". One is much more reasonable, admittedly *g*.

I think that if the concern is losing fan support of the pairing, one that has very little support or few authors is at more risk. Axel/Roxas is huuuuuge in fandom, and I can't see it losing support any more than, say, Namine being introduced in CoM made people stop shipping Riku/Sora because another girl was in the equation as well as Kairi. Little ships where people already are going "Oh god there's only like two fics out there" IS more likely to be damaged by new characters, sadly, because if one or two people "switch teams" from Riku/Sora or Axel/Roxas there's still a LOT of material out there, while if one or two people switch teams from a pairing that, like, one or two people write for? ...yeah. (I also find Axel/Namine cute, for the record!)

Right. For my part, I feel that thinking a character's role is unnecessary to the franchise (from where I stand) is a sound enough reason not to like that character. Should I blame the creators for bringing in this character? Well, I do, but that doesn't change how I feel about that character.

As to the possibility that Xion could well turn out to be interesting and important, it would just mean I will be proven wrong about my initial feelings. Not knowing the plot of the new game, I've based these feelings around my present understanding of the series as a whole. If it turns out I'm not on the money, I'll revise my opinion of her when the time comes. It's just a case of waiting to be proven wrong rather than postponing judgment. I may claim to hate Xion "preemptively", but not "regardless of what may actually come".

Your point is true enough. I just wanted to take the mickey for a change of pace, partially to remind myself that instead of focusing so much energy on Xion I should just get back to writing already. Wow, if that Axel/Namine fic I've been procrastinating on ever needed to be worked on, now would be the time.

To add to this, however, I have admittedly low expectations for Xion, so I foresee myself being harsh on her character anyway.

I appreciate the honesty. Actually, I really appreciate being able to have a discussion where it's okay to disagree without it becoming a big affair.

Okay, it's a fair point. I don't agree, but your reasons for your feelings are your own.

I think it's good if you can do that! I've seen a lot of people who do hate the characters regardless (sadly) -- more than the opposite. I think the other is a great mindset. And who knows, my optimism may just result in disappointment. *g*

That's fair too! Actually, I'd love to read more Axel/Namine. I know you probably don't want to de-anon, but if you want to ping me somehow when you're done, I'd want to read it. *g* Or Axel/Roxas, for that matter.

It's a big fandom, but we might cross paths again. I do love your writing, and it's nice to see the sliding scale of optimism vs cynicism in action, in a non-wanky way :)

sdf; Thanks very much ♥ Yeah, definitely in utter agreement on that. o/

re eta: It just means that she might not actually take all the spotlight, as a Mary Sue is reportedly supposed to do. The current trailer is basically all Xion, which disappointing for someone who expected more on the rest of the Organization. In the game, her actual role might be more reasonable in proportion to the rest of the cast.

Oh, okay. Thanks for your explanation.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #733 ]

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