[ SECRET POST #5097 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5097 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #730.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I'm not going to hop on the "OP's a dick" bandwagon. Life is certainly shitty and unpredictable right now and I don't blame creators for struggling. But on the other hand, it's not fair to make an agreement with people that they pay $$ in exchange for goods and then not deliver those goods. I think it'd be fair if you decide you no longer want to participate in that non-exchange.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there is some point where it no longer makes sense to support people. I think judging where that point is depends on the situation somewhat, and I think right now, you should be incredibly lenient about where you draw the line. I would also expect a lot of people to resume more active posting schedules later.

And of course, this is assuming that OP sees value in supporting these people in general in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's also only fair then, to be incredibly lenient about people not wanting to spend money on things that are unreliable or nonexistent, considering the exact same economic crisis applies to them too and their own employment may be gone or not secure

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yes, I agree that if OP is in a situation of economical trickiness themselves, then obviously that changes everything. From what OP wrote, I took it that financial considerations weren't a problem for OP.

If you want to use economic terms to think about it, imagine business A sells a ton of its products to business B, and business A is in trouble. Assuming business B is doing all right, B might extend extremely lenient terms to business A to help prop it up. This would be good for B, because it gets to keep its established relationship with its trusted supplier. But it's also a good thing to do for society, because if A can economically recover, it doesn't go bust, people don't lose their jobs, etc.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yes, but assuming the economic crunch is hitting business B, which is likely considering the circumstances we live in, expecting them to extend extremely lenient terms to anyone, or finding them a dick for not doing so, is a stretch imo

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I totally agree.

OP didn't say anything about being hit by the economic crunch, or needing to save, or anything like that. They talk about being frustrated, not about needing money. If there were other relevant details OP didn't mention, then yes, things would be different.

I don't know what you want me to do here though.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt, but maybe acknowledge that most people have a limited amount of discretionary income and that it is unfair to expect anyone to continue to pay for services that they aren’t receiving. Prematurely declaring OP an asshole because you think that not declaring up front that you’re a regular person subject to regular financial constraints means you’re some ultra wealthy person who can afford to toss money down a pit indefinitely kind of makes you the asshole. You could continue whining about people pointing that out to you, or you can acknowledge that you were an asshole and that you’ll try to be better in the future. Your call.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not just that OP didn't mention any financial dimension to their decision. Both they, and many other people in this thread, mentioned active non-financial reasons for canceling their subscriptions - the emotional feelings of annoyance of not getting what they were paying for, because it's a business transaction and you need to get what you pay for and get your money's worth or you've been wronged. In fact, that's what practically every post in the thread that's supporting OP says, including the one that I was initially replying to in starting this thread. They say a Patreon is a contract, the artist has an obligation to deliver on the contract, if they don't deliver on the exact terms of that contract you have a right to feel emotionally frustrated, and that's a good justification for canceling your subscription. So I think that there is a point of view that people have where they object to this for reasons that aren't basically financial.

And I think that specific point of view is assholish. I don't think that A Contract's A Contract, I think you should have some human consideration for the person on the other end of the deal if you're able to, and caring more about your emotional feelings that someone's taken advantage of you is a bad but unfortunately common way to look at human interactions.

[(Anonymous)]

What bizarre alternate universe do you live in where "I've given you money in exchange for [thing], you repeatedly haven't delivered [thing], and I now have neither the money I gave you nor the thing you promised" isn't basically financial? The vast majority of humans do not have infinite money. Anything amount spent on one thing cannot be spent on any other thing. That's the entire reason that someone not delivering after you pay them is really fucking annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

People who can afford to be lenient should by all means feel free to be lenient. But times are tough, a lot of people are trying to scrape by on less income. If someone decides they can't support a creator financially no matter how much the creator might deserve it because it's negatively affecting their own life, then they should stop doing it.

[(Anonymous)]

But if the active posting scales don't include all the work they failed to post, they're not giving you what you're paying for.

It's easy to say we should be lenient about things like patreon, etc, but it's money. Artists who rely 100% on their patreon fees and commissions haven't actually been out of work throughout this.

Sure, so all the shit going on means that people's heads aren't in a good place, but that's still not a good reason to not uphold your end of a subscription service. They have the option of pausing for a month if they're unable to provide what people are paying for.

It's shady if they continue to accept payment for something they aren't providing, regardless of the pandemic/political situation/etc.

[(Anonymous)]

This. This is the entire reason I don't have and never will have a Patreon - because I don't trust myself to be able to put out that sort of content consistently, and it wouldn't be fair to the people who are paying me money to get content on a regular schedule.

[(Anonymous)]

That's ridiculous.

I mean, I'll be lenient in that I'm not going to give someone bad reviews or trash-talk them for being flaky during a pandemic. But if someone is regularly not providing something I'm paying for, I'm not going to keep paying them.

Even someone who isn't as badly hit as others by the economic crunch doesn't have infinite money, and those dollars could be spent, say, subscribing to the Patreon of a different artist who does deliver on their commitments.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah I'm with you, because...well, there's a ton of nuance here.

Is it shitty that in a pandemic and with broken capitalism, people have to turn to crowdfunding to have any sort of income? Yes.
Is it shitty that some people are leaning on the good will of their crowds funding them to just wallow in their inability to meet deadlines? Yes.
Is it shitty to be frustrated despite knowing all the many issues that may lead to someone having a hard time meeting their deadlines? Yes.
Is it appropriate to decide to stop paying for content you're not receiving? Yes.

Nothing is good right now, everything is terrible, but I honestly don't blame OP for not wanting to keep paying for a service they're not receiving. Fandom content providers get an extra few layers of benefit of the doubt from fellow fandom people because we all know and we've all been there, but at some point it isn't fandom people lovingly supporting one another anymore, it's a business transaction. You can choose to keep supporting them out of some nebulous goodness of your heart, or you can realize that your business transaction has failed and you would rather not do business with them anymore. There are subtle lines between the two but I ain't judging someone who has realized they crossed that line at last.

[(Anonymous)]

This is the perfect answer, really.