[ SECRET POST #5099 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5099 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #730.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

MW also lists no-t often as the first pronunciation, so please don't use them as support for one ~variant common enough to have become acceptable while simultaneously suggesting people who use the preferred pronunciation for a different example are wrong.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I don't think any of the pronunciations are wrong. And I listed often because it has a letter in it that is no longer pronounced, but used to be. And pronouncing that letter is a subject of dispute - this is what Merriam-Webster says about that:
Often has a medial /t/ that, like similar words such has "hasten" and "soften," was once pronounced and is now typically silent. Unlike the similar words, pronouncing the "t" in "often" has returned in some modern usage. This pronunciation is still scrutinized heavily and there is a divide between whether this is an educated or uneducated way of speaking.

Also, the reason I included what Merriam-Webster said about library above was specifically to call out this: our files contain citations for these variants from educated speakers, including college presidents and professors. Since the secret says educated people wouldn't pronounce it like that.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

But you still suggest that the silent t is the one that is or should be perceived as wrong or uneducated, based on how you list it with other examples, and by your own ~proof, it is the opposite. If you're going to use MW as some sort of definitive guide, you should be consistent.

I also note that you've conveniently forgotten to mention that MW explicitly says "lieberry" is a nonstandard pronunciation, after it lists the multiple standard US and British variants. Nonstandard is a little more germane to this argument than "not uncommon". Something can be common and still wrong. Which is why it is found in "greater frequency from less educated speakers".

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I am not saying that Merriam-Webster is the absolute bastion of everything English. I am saying that they have citations that people who are educated pronounce library that way. That's it, that's my point. It is a point that directly speaks to and contradicts what the secret implies. I apologize for including 'often' in my list of things people pronounce differently, since that seems important to you.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

Your point is taken - it has been observed that some educated people use the pronunciation the OP finds objectionable. The same exact source, however, says that is less frequent or common for that to be the case, which would explain why the OP is annoyed by situations where they hear it - entirely because of its association with education. My point (having nothing to do with "often", although I do admit I hate being ~corrected when I say it perfectly correctly) is that you are using a source to make one argument while ignoring the other points in the same exact source that don't support your claims and instead support the OP's.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Okay, I am not arguing that fewer people use the pronunciation and I am not arguing that it is a standard way. I am saying that the secret maker implies that an educated person would never say it like that, that it is always wrong for the character if they are well-educated and well-spoken, and that just isn't true. I'm saying that some, not all, well-educated people will have that particular speech habit.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

Fair enough, I will agree with that. For what it's worth, I think that the OP is right in saying that there certain pronunciations are associated with education levels, but I don't think that that is right, or that policing of language in academia or whatever is right, either. Ought =/= is.

Re: What do you do in real life?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I appreciate that. Sorry that I was short with you earlier. I guess I'm a little more sensitive to this than I realized. My mom, who has a Master's degree, is from the South and very consciously suppressed her accent in college because of the perceptions surrounding it. But even though she doesn't usually speak with a Southern accent now unless she's been talking to family from there or is telling stories about growing up, it still influences her speech in other ways.