fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #737 ]

[ SECRET POST #737 ]

⌈ Secret Post #737 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[Labyrinth / The Office]

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[Kumikyoku Niconico Douga, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Version]

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[FAKE]

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[Chronicles of Narnia/The Golden Compass]

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[Batman Beyond]

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[Twilight/Heroes; Carlisle Cullen/Adam Monroe]

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[Danny Phantom]

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[Bam Margera]

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[Clint Eastwood]

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[Brad Pitt]

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[Resident Evil]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 20 pages, 476 secrets from Secret Submission Post #106.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

120 - Maybe you should've mentioned the fandom... I wonder how many people will think this is a character from Hetalia. (Still, f!s needs a lot more Afganis-tan and Strike Witches hate to make up for the Hetalia RAAAGE.)

159 - Don't ever read "Death Is My Trade" by Robert Merle. No, really - I started reading it when I was probably a bit too young to read this kind of stuff, and in the end I had to put it on hiatus because it fucked with my head too much which scared me. I finished it later when I was much older and more mature, but it was still frightening. (As it's meant to be.)

I wonder how many people will think this is a character from Hetalia.

*raises hand*

:D Well, she isn't (in fact, Hetalia doesn't even have characters from that region, thank god).

One of the reasons I regard the Hetalia Rage over here hypocritical because there are and were similar but potentially much more offensive shows and manga, yet I don't see any Rage over Afganis-tan, Strike Witches (incredibly popular fanservice anime about antropomorphized WWII military aircrafts), etc.

in fact, Hetalia doesn't even have characters from that region, thank god

Yes, I remember there being wank about that. When I first saw this secret, I assumed it was a vindication of the people on the "be careful what you wish for" side of the fence. :D

I don't know. I can't really expect people to be too upset over Strike Witches (for example) because from what I can tell its fandom on LJ isn't too big. Hetalia's English-speaking fandom is largely based on LJ so it's kind of on the peripheral for a lot of people; they might not know what it is, but they've heard of it from a friend or a friend of a friend, and when they do find out what it is there's already an association there. The main APH community has thousands of members, whereas searching "Strike Witches" as an interest doesn't even turn up a main fandom comm (just some icon/writing journals). So I can see how people aren't too concerned about those series; they've probably never heard of them (except maybe from Hetalia fans saying "hey now, at least we're not as bad as them").

I think there are other factors involved, too (like Hetalia fandom having more of a crossover with "media" fandom than most anime, for example) but mostly I think the lack of rage over these other, potentially more offensive series has more to do with total ignorance of their existence than anything else. Plus, saying "but there are similar/worse things out there" is a fairly common way of shifting the goal posts when you're trying to have a conversation about whether/why something might be offensive, so I can understand why people wouldn't necessarily respond to it or might just ignore it all together.

Anyway, all that said, I actually have to thank you because after talking to you a few weeks ago, I did read (some of) Hetalia and I think its cute. So, uh, thanks? :)

Glad to have been of service. :D

There's truth in what you say - I certainly don't expect those series to be as well-known here at LJ as Hetalia. Still, Afganis-tan was pretty popular in its time, and if one regularly visited 4chan (that many people do over here as well) it was impossible not to know about it. Same with Strike Witches - as with most male-oriented fanservice shows it's not as well-known at LJ but if one regularly visits sites like ANN, AnimeSuki, or reads anime blogs then it's impossible not to have come across it, simply because it is very popular.

Ah well, I hope that soon something will come and divert people's attention from Hetalia, at least here at f!s. (Hey, the first secrets about the new Doctor are out! :D)

Yeah, its popularity on sites like 4chan but relative lack of wank/rage here is something I attribute to the (admittedly small, but still present) media fandom/Hetalia crossover on LJ. A lot of the people who are big on discussions of race/sex/class/etc. don't go to those sites too often (for reasons I'm sure are obvious) and are members of Western media fandoms - which is probably why you don't see a lot of discussion about video games and anime/manga in comms like

metafandom. A lot of these same people might have friends who are into Hetalia (or maybe they're into Hetalia themselves), but don't care very much about most anime beyond your basic, most popular series. Being that Strike Witches and Afganis-tan don't have much in the way of fandoms on LJ, I can see why no one would bat an eye at the mention of Strike Witches or Afganis-tan (though the name of the second one might put some people on alert) but have an idea/opinion about Hetalia's content.

I feel like it's dying down a lot already, really (not least of all because of Dr. Who, of course). It seems to have run its course. It might come back later if Hetalia does something really out there (say, another overboard request on the kink meme), but for now I'm thinking it'll be Who (and maybe Merlin, I heard something's been brewing in that fandom recently) that will be getting some fire.

To be fair, Hetalia was a tiny fandom until all the wank exploded all over FS.

FS is how I found the series, and the same is true for many others.

I'm just honestly curious about this, but why thank god for Hetalia not having Middle Eastern characters?

I'm guessing because of all the wank it'd generate.

For the same reason I'm glad it has no characters for Kongo, etc. It's a gag manga and not a serious commentary on international affairs. Think what you want about its treatment of WWI and II, but the series mostly stays in the realm of military history and random anecdotes and trivia, and tries to be as inoffensive as possible. Yet, the series is controversial enough as all the wank here (and elsewhere) proves, imagine what it would be like with characters for Middle Eastern countries. (Well, actually there's a character for Egypt, but that's all.)

Plus it wasn't that long ago that a Muslim religious leader took offense at an anime showing a random quotation from the Qur'an. I suppose (hope) that the author simply doesn't want any trouble.

(Forgot that there's actually a Tibet character... but he only appeared in one strip set thousands of years ago.)

I don't know if I'd say it tries to be inoffensive... there was that Shinatty thing after all. That was kind of harsh. in b4 lol sensitive/get over it

I suppose by Japanese standards it's not. I mean, I'm no Japanese so I can't speak for them, and I'm no expert on Japanese racism (especially since I mostly stopped hanging out at 2chan) but from what I can see nobody regarded it as an ethnic slur. And as I hear from a friend, the Chinese fans he knows simply went "eh? whatever."

I think it's a bit like... in my country we have a popular candy called 'Negro' (because it's all black, obviously). The country being where it is and history being the way it was, at the time the candy was created it probably didn't even occur to people that its name could be regarded as offensive. Now of course people (well, the more enlightened part of the country) know, in theory, that the word is a racist slur but still, but still they're fine with it, mostly because they simply don't perceive it as racist. If you were to point it out to them they would simply say "so what? it's not meant to be racist." (Now imagine the average American strolling into a store and going "WHAT?!" when they see the candy on the shelf.)

I dunno, it still came off as kinda harsh to me, japanese standards or no. Not just the Shinatty thing, but also the "this thing is so low-quality and cheap, well it must be from china/ineptly trying to imitate japan" kind of thing that went with it. That was kind of :\

I wouldn't really say Hetalia is the same as that candy, since it wasn't created in a time before the things it says would be considered offensive. It's being made right now. And the "it's not meant to be racist" also seems to me to be kind of like saying "well, it's your fault for being offended, so why don't you just stop being offended by it" which seems kind of jerky to me, no offense. how many times can someone use offense in a sentence goooo

I don't really care about Hetalia either way, but I definitely wouldn't say it's inoffensive or tries to be inoffensive. It's offensive to a lot of people, judging by the secrets/comments here and in other places, and I think people should either just accept the fact that it's offensive and like it regardless (I thought it being offensive/based on stereotypes was part of the humor/appeal to its fans?), or not try to defend it as being inoffensive because it's not. If that makes sense. :B

Mind you, when I said inoffensive I meant it with regards to the wars and various atrocities that happened during them. As for the rest, I think we misunderstood each other somewhere along the line (or maybe it was just me, it was past 3AM at the time). I can't speak for other people but personally I don't think the series is any more offensive than your average TV show or comic that goes "lol stereotypes!" but for what it's worth I can see why others may not agree with me and I respect their opinion if they find it offensive for whatever reason (as long as they express their opinion in a civilized way). As for the Shinatty thing, true, it's not very nice but it is one of the most prevalent stereotypes about China, and as with most other stereotypes it's hard not to see the truth behind it. (Actually, the Shinatty was based on actual Chinese Hello Kitty bootleg merchandise.) I can see why it could be regarded as offensive but as for me, if the series took a similar shot at my country I wouldn't feel offended unless I knew for sure that a) it was a mean-spirited comment knew or b) there wasn't a grain of truth behind it (maybe not even then).

In any case, I respect people finding it offensive for whatever reason, though as I see most people have problems with it because it deals with WWII (among other things but that tends to go over people's heads). Still, while I'm not saying it's completely innocent or anything, I can't help finding it way less offensive than what it may seem like.

I dunno, it's really hard to say ANYthing is really inoffensive, I think. Some people I think have mentioned that how Hetalia glosses over or avoids real wars or conflicts offends them. You can't win either way. Although I do think we somehow got off-topic. :B How did we start on this again?

I think when you do something like this, with a volatile timeperiod with a whole bunch of different real world countries, you're stepping into a minefield. I really don't think it's possible to do something like this and NOT offend someone. Although whether or not I personally find it offensive really isn't relevant as to whether or not it itself is offensive. If that makes sense? Even if the Shinatty thing doesn't offend me personally, I can definitely see how that in itself is offensive.

I don't think it's just because it deals with WWII, but that it's a gag strip about WWII and real world countries (with a large slash fanbase), and some of the fandom's response/behavior has been... a bit leery, you know? I think backlash against something like this is totally inevitable, and not entirely unwarranted given the touchyness of the subject material. But that's just my take on it. :B

Eh, nations and history and whatnot are serious business for many people, and in any given time period there's going to be an infinite number of reasons why people might be offended by anything that deals with such things. But even so, in the end it's still up to personal interpretation. Many people find it offensive, and many people don't, and there are many shades of grey between, so many opinions. Some of them I can understand/respect, some I can't.

I think that in the end it all comes down to the individual and her own decisions about how she views such things, in this case Hetalia. I mean, you can't really do anything about other people's opinions, can you? Me, I decided on a stance regarding this series that I'm comfortable with, and I'm saddened (even angry sometimes) when I see some reactions and opinions within fandom that I don't agree with and/or feel uncomfortable with. (But then, as everyone here should know, fandom is not a hive mind.) In any case, I understand the backlash, I expected a backlash, even the wank, it's just that, well, the wank was a bit too much. :3

...or something. I'm not quite awake anymore so I hope what I wrote makes sense. o_O *facepalm*

That's true, but actually thinking about it, I usually give more consideration to someone who says they're offended by something rather than someone who says they aren't. Does that make sense? D: Because feeling offended/hurt by something really can suck.

But there's not really a lot anyone can do about how anyone chooses to react to Hetalia. :B I'm actually surprised it didn't blow up more before now. There's some anime for it coming out or something right? This might just be the tip of the iceberg. :O

Sure - as I said, it's not people being offended that I mind, it's when they're wanky about it and insult me, personally. I didn't even react to the anti Hetalia secrets until they started going "IF YOU LIKE THIS SERIES YOU'RE [racist/shallow idiot/not a human being/etc]!!!" I mean, offensive or not, Hetalia is not, y'know, Mein Kampf or anything. (...god, was this a Godwin? hope not...) Just as there are lots of reasons to be offended by it, there are lots of reasons to like it, people are different, fandom is not a hive mind, etcetera etcetera.

I think the reason it didn't blow up earlier was that it was a small fandom. I suppose someone noticed it, posted a secret (or more) to f!s and as they say, the rest is history (HA HA HA *shoots self*). And yeah, the anime is coming out in two weeks... though I hope most people who read f!s have had more than enough of this so there won't be such a loud reaction to the anime.

(To be honest I'm not entirely happy about the anime's existence, because IMO this series works as a webcomic and even as a drama CD but it's just not something that should be animated and aired on TV, even in Japan... but there's not a lot fandom can do about that, is there.)

Hahaha, IT'S NEVER VERY LONG BEFORE THE AD HOMINEMS COME OUT
especially here :D

It really exploded after that kinkmeme secret, didn't it? That seemed to be the impression I got anyway.

There's a drama CD? :O Although it should be interesting to see the reaction to the anime. I ANTICIPATE SOME DRAMA

I wonder how many people will think this is a character from Hetalia.

Not blond and blue-eyed, so I think we're good.

Ah, thanks! I always need helpful people like you to remind me that I do imagine all those dark-haired, dark-eyed and darker skinned characters.

Yeah, but think of how easy they make it to identify them as people who are judging a series and its entire fandom before they actually know jack shit about the series! It makes them so much easier to ignore.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #737 ]

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