fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #738 ]

[ SECRET POST #738 ]

⌈ Secret Post #738 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Monsters Vs Aliens]

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103.

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104.

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105.

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106.

[MS Paint Adventures]

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107.

[Silent Hill 3]

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108.

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109.

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

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117.

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118.

[Doctor Who]

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119.

[Anne of Green Gables]

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120.

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121.

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122.

[Ever After]

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

[Xena: Warrior Princess]

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127.

[Dune]

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128.

[The Andy Milonakis Show]

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129.

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130.

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131.

[Doctor Who]

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132.

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133.

[Eureka seveN; Ken-Goh]

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134.

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135.

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136.

[IT Crowd; resized]

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137.

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138.

[Assassin's Creed]

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139.

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140.

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141.

[30 Rock]

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142.

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143.

[David Tennant]

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144.

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145.

[Valkyrie]

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146.

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147.

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

[Top Chef]

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

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157.

[Pushing Daisies]

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158.

[Gallagher Girls novels / Doctor Who]

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159.

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160.

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161.

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172.

[Doctor Who / Big Finish]

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173.

[Forumwarz]

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174.

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175.

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176.

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[Tales of Vesperia]

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Notes:

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Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 377 secrets from Secret Submission Post #106.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - template ].
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(deleted comment)

...does this opinion extend to Comiket? I've always been curious to see where the line is drawn when it comes to this.

(deleted comment)

Oh, I'm sorry! Lemme find a link for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comiket

Basically, people who make doujinshi (which often uses characters from established works) come to the comic market with their self-published work to sell for profit. From what I understand, some mangaka/animators get discovered this way too.

I'm not even going to argue with your summary moral judgment on fanart. It basically just tells me you don't know anything about the realities of professional artists and illustrators and the market they operate in.

But I would remind you that artists have to pay rent like anyone else. And they also have to pay for those con badges, their space at the artist alley, the transportation to get there, the prints sitting in their binders. While there have been a few lucky and talented exceptions, most make a paltry amount of money off of prints and comics, often not even enough to compensate for costs.

Your remark about fancomics particularly irritates me -- do you have ANY idea how much time it takes to draw a comic? Even the fastest artists I know take four or five hours MINIMUM to complete a SINGLE black-and-white comic page with no tones, and printing them up once you're done isn't cheap.

Just...god I don't even know why I bother responding to these comments. I love how there's all this talk about "evil artist entitlement" and yet you're sitting there telling me that I should hand over prints of my fanart to you for free because...you say so? Talk about entitled.

(deleted comment)

Would be all right if I sold prints of my Wizard of Oz fanart? Yeah? I mean, dozens of graphic novels, films, video games and such are based on it, so that's fine, right? But if I sold Harry Potter fanart that's NOT fine, because that book hasn't passed into the public domain, right? So basically you're making moral judgements based entirely on US copyright law?

You can not like it and not think it's right if that's how you feel, but the sale of fanart is a morally complicated issue, and I'm tired of how frequently it's oversimplified for the sake of handing down judgement on other people. I personally don't think that the vagueries of US copyright law (wherin when something passes into the public domain, for instance, has more to do with Disney's lawyers at this point that anything else) should serve as a basis for moral judgement.

I apologize for being unnecessarily rude, I'm just tired of having this conversation over and over again.

(deleted comment)

This might be totally out of left-field here, but ... what about those of us who buy fanart? It's not as though the fanartist is tricking us into believing they own those characters. And it's not like I'm ever going to get a piece of art from the original artist. Clearly there's a demand for what fanartists do, so it's not like this is entirely their responsibility.

I'm an artist too, and I like having pieces of art I've picked up from cons hanging around to look at. Some of them are original, most are fanart. The unfortunate truth is that I usually don't have time to invest in learning all about an artist's Cookie-Cutter-Original-Character #45661, so unless a picture is stunning on its own, I'm probably not going to care as much. More often it's, "You have an awesome picture of Character-X-That-I-Actually-Know-And-Like, let me take it off your hands." I'm paying them for creating something pleasing that I can't get anywhere else, and usually because they do it in a unique style.

I suppose I could not buy fanart, but then I wouldn't have some of my favourite pieces of work hanging right in front of me now. :( I already paid my debt to the original creators by playing their games and buying their series. They brought me the characters, but they certainly did NOT bring me all of this fabulous artwork.

Dude, creating a drawing is a original piece of artwork. Yeah, it has a character that is already pre-established from another artist but the artwork itself is still ORIGINAL. The only thing that isn't original is the character that the artist is using, and almost ALL artists give credit to the original artist who created the character. :\

So artists shouldn't charge for the skill and creativity to place this "character" in a original and unique way? Give me a break.

Btw, I'm an artist too and I use to sorta feel the same way about fanart. However, I actually started to draw it and guess what? You're attitude shifts. I'm not less of an artists because I choose to draw fanart.

Edit: Also, no artist I know of is forcing any fanbase to pay. It's totally optional, and most of the time? Doujinshi artists are ripped off because people get a hold of it and share it online.

So really, in reality, fandom gets away with ripping off the artist in the first place. So I'm really BOGGLED about how "evil" artists are when most of the time THEY are the ones getting ripped off. :\

Edited 2009-01-13 03:35 (UTC)

(deleted comment)

Okay, so you draw fanart. So do I.

The fandom should be held responsible for not crediting, not linking back and not asking permission from an artist. I've had my art stolen, it's not cool and it isn't EVER okay.

When it comes to doujinshi, like I said. Nobody is demanding you to pay for it. It's entirely voluntary. The price? Is usually not expensive, and usually the artist isn't making a huge profit from it. I'm saying this in general. Probably a famous fanartist can get away with more.

I didn't deny the fact that the character is pre-established, but you totally neglected my argument that the artwork that the character is in IS ORIGINAL.

(deleted comment)

I have no idea what you are referring to when you say an artist does something wrong. What is the wrong? I'm confused. :\

"Yes, the artwork is original."

Same with fanfics too. I don't see the problem?

Of coarse the pre-established backstory/character/relationships aren't original. My argument just was that there is a bit of originality to every piece of fanwork period, and you admitted to it that it is.

I know that fan(anything) is just that a piece of art that is dedicated to another artist's artwork.

Honestly? I wouldn't have a problem people paying for fanfics. If they made it like into a little book that would be neat! Sadly, this hasn't caught on but I wouldn't be against the idea.

I think we are pretty much in agreement, but I'm still confused about what you think is the "wrong".

(Sorry if I snapped at you earlier but this stuff is touchy for me. lawl.)

(deleted comment)

If a fanart/fancomic is done by commission is it still right?

I don't consider it wrong, because:

1) the artist isn't making a huge profit from it.

2) The Japanese let this stuff slide, despite copyright laws, because they know the artist is barely making any profit and it's free advertising for the original work.

I don't believe you are in the minority from my experience. Considering that fanart is frequently stolen on a daily basis, and people would rather ask how to steal or get a doujinshi for free then pay for it. (Atleast from my experience.) I think that it is often shared but not out rightly said opinion, if y'know what I mean.

But y'know it can also be 50/50 for all I know. Pfff.

(deleted comment)

That's funny that works in your head like that. lol

I've actually seen commissions all the time on DeviantArt! D:

/shrug

I guess you are.

You're the minority, but you're not alone. I think exactly the same thing, because profiting off someone else's hard work and creativity is wrong. Selling fanart is wrong, and I really don't get how people can't understand that simple thing. It's something you do out of love of the original material, not something you do to earn money!

I'm going to guess you've never seen the huge piles on against fan writers who try to make any type of profit on their fanfics. In fandom, selling fanart = a.ok. Selling fanfic = OMG! You're STEALING FROM THE ORIGINAL ARTISTS!!!!

It has happened, a lot, and every single time someone makes a 'little book' the fandom explodes.

I would be more then happy to support fanfic writers if they would want to do that. I honestly don't see the problem with it. :\

Is it hypocritical of fandom? Most definitely.

HOMG SISKO ICON! You are made of win and awesome.

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[ SECRET POST #738 ]

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