fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5148 ]

[ SECRET POST #5148 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5148 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 34 secrets from Secret Submission Post #737.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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For me it's classic rock. I love most of the 70s and 80s stuff but man the lyrics have not aged well.

Monty Python. The format of having sketches linked is brilliant, but is also its own worst enemy because you can't edit it hardcore to take out the racist stuff.

Linked? Do you mean like the movies, as opposed to the TV show?

No. The sketches usually had an element that took on a life of its own and linked that element to the next sketch. And other elements would repeat.

For instance, the Silly Walks sketch starts with him walking past a queue of gas men from a sketch earlier in the episode.

I thought they were making fun of racists.

I definitely think they were. But... even if you're making fun of racists, hearing the term 'darkie' is still incredibly uncomfortable viewing. And the various animations of Chinese people as yellow with slanted eyes definitely should be left behind in that era.

I don't think it should be like burned out of existence or anything, I just think it would be great to have an edited version available on netflix lol.

They were, but they also did yellowface, blackface, and brownface with stereotypes that today are just NO. I'm a big fan of MP, but there are some seriously racist elements that aged like milk.

yeah, I love it but there's such a mindfuck about it being one of the most progressive comedies of the 70s, touching on racism and gay characters by both mocking racists and homophobes but also relying on stereotypes to get the joke across. they were better than almost everyone else but in 2021 eyes there's still a lot of yikes involved.

at least, MP is the sort of thing that could be used as a teaching moment by showing progression during a time when a lot of these attitudes were still considered standard thinking, versus other things that are so outrageously racist and homophobic with no apology, which should simply be chucked.

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 00:30 (UTC) - Expand

Non-problematic version: The mission: impossibe series.

I loved it as a kid. but I can't deny some of it is a little dated. camera work, acting, style. I still love it... but I can't not notice how it's very old fashioned.

Problematic version: The James Bond novels. I'm reading Live and let Die now, and by Christ it's hard going. I have read earlier books, with more reason to be so concerned with "The savagery of the negro" that have had less words dedicated to it. You're not in the fucking jungle in an 1800's adventure tale, about to be eaten alive by cannibals with bones through their tits. You're in post war Harlem, We don't need to describe every few sentences how unevolved the black man is.

I /like/ that to some extent Felix pushes back on Bond, but the fact that bond is the protagonist makes this really really uncomfortable. And it's not even in limited to the character of Bond. The narration seems specifically to side with bonds assessment. it's really uncomfortable. At least HP Lovecraft had the courtesy to hide it behind allusions of some terrifying other.

Seriously, Alan Quartermain wasn't this fixated on race.

Somewhat similar to your Bond example, on a different issue, I remember reading the Sector General science fiction series by James White, and it's actually pretty good in terms of cool aliens and thoughts about how a massive multi-species space hospital might actually work, but it was written in the 50s and 60s, and I honestly had trouble believing how sexist it is in places. Just. The things it says with a straight face. The author did get a bit better as things went on, but the start almost feels like parody levels of sexism.

Indiana Jones.

I still love the movies. And punching Nazis will never go out of style. But we recently showed these to our kids, and we had to have a talk before about how, no, people from India don’t really eat live eels, etc. Some of the shit in these movies is hard to explain.

At the same time, one of my girls was really into the young prince in the Temple of Doom. Both of them loved Short Round (or whatever that kid’s name was).

Agreed. I still love those movies, but some parts really haven't aged well at all.

Shortround was great. I wanted to be him when I was a kid.

Honestly, if the last indy film had ditched the Mutt character, and focuses on a grown up shortround, now an established adventurer in his own right, coming back to Indy to help with some mystery or other, I'd have loved it. Instead we got Shia Labeouf.

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 00:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

Don't forget those monkey brains!

"Oh, hey, we need something other than nazis. Let's frame a major world religion as slavers and into human sacrifice!"

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 02:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 02:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What book/show/movie/music do you wish had aged better?

(Anonymous) - 2021-02-09 02:47 (UTC) - Expand

The Original Star Trek series is another example of something that was really progressive for its time, at least on race. But especially in terms of gender it is really awkward and hasn't aged well at all.

I'm honestly glad the new movies have just pretended that actually in the 23rd century things were as progressive as we now expect they would be. And I tend to pretend the uniform thing was actually like it was at the beginning of TNG where either gender could wear either, it is just that captains maybe enforce different rules. Kirk clearly likes girls, so maybe he specified women in skirt uniform on his ship.

You know what's interesting (to me). I read an article not *too* long ago, and it was Nichelle Nichols talking about ST and her role and etc., and she said how the uniforms on the show were actually great, because being able to wear that short skirt was freedom and rebellion.

I'll have to try and find it.

Ah ha! This links to wiki which links to the BBC, and you're on your own from there. :D
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5stnjn/til_that_nichelle_nichols_did_not_dislike_wearing/

I think Shatner is right that the premise wouldn't fly in the 60s, at least not without a fuckton of swishing, camp, and confirmed bachelor jokes.

But of course Shatner has to be a dick about the fandom.

There's the tos episode where yanks and commies have been fighting for hundreds of years over a document that just happenes to be identical to the preamble of the us constitution, something something parallel evolution.

The women on Star Trek were encouraged to wear their skirts/pants (because yes while not front and center there are a few extras that wear the 'male' uniform) as they saw fit. Nichelle Nichols purposefully wore her skirt shorter, it was a trend of the times, not some forced fancy. Considering how short people still wear their shorts/skirts it's not even outdated in the way you seem to imply.
Check your facts before you let your assumptions run wild next time.

Dragonriders of Pern.

Friendly dragons! Fire lizards! All sorts of cool shit!

But *god*, they're so rapey, there's so much overt misogny, it's just... difficult to reread.

Oooo, nice choice. Yes, I love the world setup and a lot of the ideas. Dragons! Friendly dragons! Humans telepathically bonded to them and riding them! But no thanks to the rape and other sexist stuff. Honestly I still reread and like parts of the first few books in spite of that. But It would be nice to have a version without that.

(Cozy Werewolf Anon)

That is still on my pile of ideas. I just sort of finished outlining the first section of a DBZ inspired Space Opera and... been focusing on fashion b/c I need a job yesterday.

Still on my pile of ideas. Though redoing the worldbuilding is going to be hell. Scifi dragons/fire lizards are still awesome.

A couple of older Doctor Who episodes come to mind like The Talons of Weng-Chiang.

Independence Day (1996). The overt nationalism has always been side-eyed by critics, even back when it was initially released, but it also has a unique 90's flavor of sexism: there's badass women, but they aren't allowed to be as badass as their partners and there's odd unnecessary quips about them strung throughout the film that are hard to ignore when watching now in 2021.

Then there's the soundtrack that has a moodkilling 'Steven Spielberg-esqueness' to it that ruins multiple scenes - such a soundtrack was typical of big blockbusters from this period, especially after the success of Jurassic Park. Admittedly maybe it's more personal preference than anything but all of the 'stock adventure tunes' really sawed down the film's bite. The ending was wrapped up way too nicely and the film just kinda glosses over the the fact that millions of people were exterminated by invading aliens, that and multiple deaths of minor characters are completely forgotten/ignored by the lead protagonists - all of this is further marred by the peppy soundtrack. I still love this film and in fact probably love it even more as an adult than I did as a kid, I just wish it played the horror elements up more than the family adventure ones. Love the humor of the film, just not what felt like the dumbing down of narrative and atmosphere.

Outside of Independence Day, the overwhelming majority of films from the 60's have not aged well at all IMHO. It's a painful decade of cinema for me to watch.

I simply do not pay attention whenever Jeff Goldblum is not on screen, tbh... (and sure, there is some stuff with David Levinson's relationship with his ex that's never been great but... that man's HIPS)

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