[ SECRET POST #5180 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5180 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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06. [SPOILERS for Brand upon the Brain!]
[WARNING for mention of suicide]



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07. [SPOILERS for End Roll]
[WARNING for mention of suicide]



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08. [WARNING for probable discussion of sexual assault?]



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09. [WARNING for mention of sexual assault/rape]



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10. [WARNING for discussion of rape?]



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11. [WARNING for mention of sexual harassment]



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12. [WARNING for mention of domestic violence]



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13. [WARNING for discussion of pedophilia]



















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #741.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[tabaqui]

I agree, OP. Angel had his soul forced on him, and he did nothing but moan on and on about how *awful* he was. Spike went looking for his soul (which i think is a huge canon retcon, btw), and though he had his wobbles, he mostly was a good guy with it and about it.

He faced his past, moved forward, did the best he could.

Angel had his moments, but mostly he just annoyed me.

[(Anonymous)]

Disclaimer: I haven't watched the show in a few years so am going off my best recollections, here.

I think you and OP are missing the fact that Spike only came to want his soul because the chip forced him to have a period where he couldn't behave like a normal vampire. That time was crucial in getting him to calm the fuck down enough to fall for Buffy - which, btw, was his only motivator in improving himself, which I think is pretty shallow. Spike's decision to change wasn't done off his own bat, it was following circumstances that no other vampire, Angel/Angelus included, had been in.

I do agree that Angelus was way more evil than Spike, but I don't see how that makes Angel a lesser character. Especially given that Angel was dedicated to atoning for what he had done when he didn't have a soul, whereas the only thing Spike felt remorse for was attacking Buffy.

[(Anonymous)]

You mean something negative happened to him and over several seasons, he experienced character development as a result of this effect? Weird how that makes him a more interesting character to a lot of people.

[tabaqui]

Considering Spike ....didn't have a soul and was in the thrall of a demon, there's only so much remorse he *could* have (and i felt the same about Angel, as well - he wasn't in his right mind, basically, so eventually the hair-shirting got *really* old).

And wanting to change and improve yourself because you're in love doesn't sound shallow to me, plus he *continued* doing it when Buffy was dead (with no hope of her ever coming back, as far as he knew), AND he certainly had a lot more concern for Dru, even when she was ill, weak, or legitimately insane (and putting them in peril - mob in Prague -) than we saw with Angelus and Darla, Dru, or even Spike.

And even when all he wanted to do was kill Buffy, when she was on her back porch, in shock and terrified at the diagnoses her mom had gotten, his first impulse was to *help her*. To sit with her and offer anything he had to help. When he had admitted that shooting her would cause him a huge amount of pain, but he could do it. He admitted to himself *and* to Buffy that he knew she didn't love him, but he still did his best, took care of the Scoobies and the potentials.

Yeah, I think it makes him the better person.

[esteefee]

I think even as a vampire Spike was less evil than Angelus by a long shot. When they were romping together, I mean.

The chip was a soul, though, basically. It was like a conscience that dinged Spike physically instead of emotionally when he was bad. When it was forced on him initially he hated it, hated it, tried to get rid of it so many times before he fell in love with Buffy and that made him resigned to it and want to keep it.

Anyway, he didn't go looking for it the first time, which the OP implies. Spike was perfectly happy being evil until the chip was forced on him. I adored him but he was definitely evil. Being soulless is an affliction that way.

[tabaqui]

Sure, of course he was. He still had a lot more....*humanity* than Angelus, though, as per the Judge, and he was willing to do things to, for instance, save Dru and *not* actually end the world, and even if it were self-serving (most things we do are), he was perfectly capable of sitting and talking with Joyce and not being an asshole.

(Imagine Angelus talking to Joyce about...anything. Yeah, no.)

[esteefee]

Yep.