[ SECRET POST #5194 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5194 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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08. [SPOILERS for The Last Book in the Universe]



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09. [SPOILERS for The Penthouse 2]



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10. [WARNING for mention of sexual assault]



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11. [WARNING for mention of dubcon]



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12. [WARNING for mention of rape]



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13. [WARNING for mention of noncon/underage shipping]































Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #743.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[philstar22]

Why doesn't it make sense? The elves comes from Valinor. They aren't the ancestors of any modern humans or any humans at all. Some of them are specified as having white skin, yes. But not all of them. So it isn't against canon to make those ones POC.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't make sense to arbitrarily make only Elves and Dwarves POCs. So what if these Men were ancestors of westerners if we're already discounting Tolkien's vision? Why do we now care about that? And villains can't be POCs because...? It's not like they would be the only ones in the setting anymore.

[philstar22]

I think some villains can be, I just wouldn't only make villains POCs. Some people do that, just make Melkor or Sauron or the men who follow them POCs and that bothers me.

People can do whatever they want. Just me personally, I prefer to stick as much as possible with things that don't contradict canon even if they aren't exactly Tolkien's vision. I don't feel the need to follow the author's personal interpretation of his writing, but I do try to stick to the writing and to interpret myself from that writing rather than going outside of it. The writing still gives a lot of room to interpret with, especially the Silmarillion.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, my perspective reading Tolkien as a non-white person is: this isn't my culture. I can appreciate it, and engage with it, but I don't feel the need to establish ownership over this narrative that feels pretty distinctly foreign to me. I've never really imagined an Asian Luthien (but I have seen that fancast) because Asian Luthien just doesn't ring authentic to me at all.

So any and all 'racebending' in Tolkien-dom is purely cosmetic, because nothing about the text leaves room for cultural interpretation. And an authentically POC character is more than how they look.

[philstar22]

That makes sense. Sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

So any and all 'racebending' in Tolkien-dom is purely cosmetic, because nothing about the text leaves room for cultural interpretation. And an authentically POC character is more than how they look.

I understand where your coming from, but at the same time I feel as though that line of arguments prohibits POC from being part of a lot of relevant and influential stories in the western world. Like it or not, but a lot of that was written by straight white cis men, from a straight white cis male perspective. It's great that the new media being created is getting more and more diverse, but at the same time, Tolkien and the like aren't going anywhere.

Making some elves black might only seem be a cosmetic change, but it's a little puzzle piece of normalizing diverse casts (I'm thinking more of official media like movies or TV; some random fanart on Tumblr is obviously less impactful overall).

For me, it's not about taking ownership of the narrative, it's about becoming part of established white narratives to normalize diversity. Which, I would argue, helps pave the way for new narratives about authentic POC characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I get that but I'm not really all that interested. I would rather devote whatever limited energy I have to writing my own stories and supporting other creators telling their own stories. Sure, at least if it's a visual adaptation, diverse casting can do some quantifiable good in the industry by launching actors of color, but at what point can the goal be something beyond normalizing diversity?

At the end of the day, POCs are merely being invited to step into these previously white-only narratives. No ownership. What's worse, these crumbs of representation convince The Powers That Be that the bare minimum they're doing is enough. We need to get into the writers' room, not just be the diverse faces acting out white writers' narratives.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if this is really relevant or a POV needed, but as a white person this is why racebending seems tacky to me. It has always seemed to be an insincere gesture in exactly the way you are describing.

What's needed is new stories with diverse writers.

[(Anonymous)]

This, exactly. And that's the thing: there's no shortage of stories with diverse casts written by POC writers! It's just that no one ever pays attention to them. People would rather racebend white characters in existing works than devote time and energy to promoting works that feature non-white casts so that they get more publicity.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT Precisely. Hopefully things will change anon.

[(Anonymous)]

Can't there be both? There absolutely needs to be new, more diverse fantasy. But at the same time, this old fantasy still exists. And people do love them. People aren't going to just forget that it exists. A lot of the old fantasy is what created the genre in the first place. So can't fandom both bring POCs into the old fantasy and at the same time call for new, more inclusive fantasy and celebrate it where it exists?

[(Anonymous)]

+1

This isn't an either/or. While the studios continue to flood us with adaptations of all-white canons, we can try to make the tv (and fandom) landscape a little less of a sea of white, while promoting more diverse canons.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, my perspective reading Tolkien as a non-white person is: this isn't my culture. I can appreciate it, and engage with it, but I don't feel the need to establish ownership over this narrative that feels pretty distinctly foreign to me.

This is how I feel too.