[ SECRET POST #5214 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5214 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________


03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #746.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/UvFMU6m.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's always slightly crap if they don't even want to try and improve. IDK, that seems to be one of the ways in which fandom has changed. I swear people used to put effort in, even if the results were variable. Whereas nowadays the main attitude seems to be give me attention and accolades without me having to polish my craft and tell a good story people will enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... there was always crap in amounts vastly overwhelming the good stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. That's why I said 'with variable results'. I mean you gotta start somewhere, but still I remember everyone in my little junior fan comm back in the day forming writers circles and basically trying to improve at every turn.

[(Anonymous)]

But fandom is so much bigger nowadays, with so many more people participating at varying levels of commitment. Can't really say with certainty that there aren't still groups out here trying to improve. Just as you can't really say that people in fandom used to care more and just didn't manage to achieve good results... a lot of the bad fic posted ten, twenty years ago had just as little care and effort behind them.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been writing fanfic since the 1980s and there have ALWAYS been people who don't want to put any effort in.

Maybe not in your circles. Not really in my circles, either, because people who want to *try* to put out good work (even if they don't succeed) tend to find one another. But it was out there.

But I agree with the secret--if you're complaining about the lack of response to your fic, but aren't going to at least try to do the best you are personally capable of (even if that's just "run spellcheck" or "read the thing over before you hit 'post' to be sure that you haven't left in a paragraph of what looks like a history essay," and yes, I have read that), then I have no sympathy.

[(Anonymous)]

Are we talking about people who don't want to hear ANY critique of their writing at all, or people who think that *unsolicited* critique of people's writing is rude and fic readers should never do it? Because if the first one, then yes, I agree, it's irritating to see people complain about both.

But honestly, I've never seen a fic writer complain about the first thing; I've only seen fic writers complaining about the second thing, and people getting really pressed and angry when a fic writer complains about unsolicited criticism, and I really don't get why they get annoyed. It makes perfect sense to me: people should seek out critique, but it doesn't have to be the critique of randos on the internet.

[(Anonymous)]

Very true. I'm not likely to listen to a critique from a random internet stranger who I don't know or trust, and whose tastes and preferences may be completely divergent from my own. I would seek out concrit from fandom friends (if I had any) and from other writers whose work I know I enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

I think OP is talking about people who don't ask for critique and also complain about not getting any comments. And yes, it's possible that the lack of comments are because people have a hard time saying anything about the fic in the first place, given its flaws.

It's sort of like stating "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" and then complaining when people don't say anything at all.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT. I'm a bit confused by this: "people who don't ask for critique" -- how can you tell for certain if someone *doesn't* ask for critique (aside from them stating publicly "I NEVER ask for critique" -- which, again, I haven't seen anyone say something like that)? I don't publicly ask for critique, but I privately ask for critique from my beta, my partner, on closed writing communities dedicated to feedback, etc. A random friend I have on the internet who's following me on social media isn't going to see any of my calls for critique because I don't issue them in public...

[(Anonymous)]

da

I think OP is talking about people who don't ask for critique and also complain about not getting any comments.

This is, in my opinion, perfectly fair. Most people are absolutely terrible at critique, which is why good betas are worth their weight in gold. The average fic reader could at best tell you how to make your fic appeal to them.

And incidentally, if someone can't think of anything nice to say, that's a sign that they're not going to be able to give good critique, at least for that story. Decent critique builds up, it doesn't just tear down.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

There are way too many people who think their drive-by condescending comments are valuable critique that writers should be grateful for. Nah. For every halfway decent piece of critical feedback, there's hundreds of comments that are just mean-spirited, based on a way off-base misreading of the story, essentially boiling down to "why did you write this thing I don't like instead of what I wanted to read" or factual/grammatical corrections that are, in fact, wrong.

Really good constructive criticism is hard to do. I think it's a much rarer skill than just being able to write readable prose.

[(Anonymous)]

Holy hell, yes, this.

I also love the argument "I'm not looking to improve" because. they seem to act like people's critiques are telling them to be professional-level writers or something. No, it's just meant as, "Hey, if you feel like you aren't getting a lot of readers or comments, here are some reasons why that might be that you can look at."

Also, if this is really meant to be just a fun hobby, fine. I fully agree, fanfic is supposed to be a fun hobby. So if that's the case, then authors need to stop obsessing over their stats in comparison to other people's, as though it were some kind of competition. And they need to stop with the Patrons and commissions and demands to get some kind of monetary payment for their fic. I totally get wanting and liking kudos and comments and such, I love getting that stuff, too. And I can understand taking some interest in your stats from time to time, for your own personal reasons.

But if you're obsessing that much over your stats, to where you're freaking out because someone else is doing better than you or whatever and turning it into some kind of competition, then you've officially sucked all the fun out of what you claim is supposed to be a hobby, and it makes it much harder to take the "I don't need to improve, I'm just doing this for fun!" argument seriously.

And if you're asking for money for your fics (and I'm setting aside all the legal issues involved in doing that), then that's also an indicator that it's clearly NOT just a fun hobby anymore. If you're at the point where you think you deserve to be paid for your writing, then you should be able to handle some critique of your work.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd love a critique. But I don't care about metrics because I know most of my fanwork is niche, for low-volume fandoms, about characters few people care about anymore, and not slash-of-the-month.

[(Anonymous)]

God, yes. I see people (not just fic writers, I've seen giffers on Tumblr do this too) obsess over stats and how many kudos or hits or likes or reblogs they have and it makes it so obvious that they're creating content for all the wrong reasons. Do it because you love it, not because you want to be popular on the internet. =/

[(Anonymous)]

The ones I've seen complaining about not getting any comments have mostly been the kind of people who get angry about getting short comments like 'great fic :)' instead of elaborate essay-length comments praising how good they are.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree completely that having no comments or hits equals a bad writer (which infers the inverse is true). It's been discussed countless times here that a lot of good fic can get buried under the just tonne of fic out there and being a popular fic with lots of comments and kudos hits etc is usually more to do with being in line with what's popular and hits popular kinks as opposed to whether the fic has brilliant writing.
As an example, I point to 50 Shades of Grey whenever someone equates "popularity must equal good writing".

[(Anonymous)]

the secret is specifically talking about people who complain about no comments AND who are loud and proud about not wanting to bother being a good writer though, which would seem to imply that these particular people are actually bad writers

[(Anonymous)]

Let me be honest for a second - it's not as easy as some people assume to find commenters' whose opinions are truely constructive and insightful. Most people just comment on their preferences in regards to pairings and life choices made by characters, not, for example, pacing or structure issues, so their "critique" might be intresting on some level, but not really all that useful, unless by "I want to improve" you mean "I want to be able to craft a fic that this particular fandom will love because it's in most fans taste".

[(Anonymous)]

True- but people telling you their taste can explain why there is a lack or abundance of interaction. It's one thing when you know you're writing niche and another when you don't.