fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #756 ]

⌈ Secret Post #756 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Keith Olbermann]

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102.

[Pygmalion]

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103.

[Terrance Zdunich, Alexa Vega, Darren Bousman, Repo! The Genetic Opera]

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104.

[Nathaniel Grasion: Anita Blake Vampire Hunter, Duo Maxwell:Gundam Wing]

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105.

[World of Warcraft]

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106.

[Evangeline Lily]

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107.

[Dennou Coil]

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108.

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109.

[24]

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110.

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111.

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112.

[Lewis Black]

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

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117.

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118.

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119.

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120.

[Harry Potter/Minerva McGonnagall]

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121.

[Battlestar Galactica]

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122.

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123.

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124.

[Maria†Holic]

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125.

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126.

[Merlin]

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127.

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128.

[Fairy Tail]

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129.

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130.

[Vocaloids]

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131.

[Married with Children]

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132.

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133.

[David Cronenberg and Viggo Mortensen]

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134.

[Paul Magrs]

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135.

[Little Miss Sunshine]

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136.

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137. [posted twice]

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138.

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139. [repeat]

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

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145.

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146.

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147.

[Lunia Online]

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

[Gossip Girl]

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153.

[Evil Dead/Re-Animator]

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154.

[Tale of Despereaux]

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155.

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel]

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156.

[Brock, Pokemon]

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157.

[Weeds]

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158.

[TWEWY]

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159.

[Pirates of the Caribbean]

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160.

[Heidi Blickenstaff, Susan Blackwell, the [title of show] show]

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161.

[20th Century Boys]

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162.

[NPR: Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me!]

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163.

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164.

[Evangelion, Shinji]

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165.

[Kodomo no Jikan (Nymphet)]

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166.

[Big Bang Theory]

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167.

[Alan Shore (Boston Legal, The Practice)]

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168.

[Joss Whedon]

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169.

not a secret
http://i40.tinypic.com/2jbppg1.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s211/s3man/fandom%20secret/VAMPSECRET.png
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4113/frostnixondj9.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/1zq6lg8.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2s7ya.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/rtpcmd.jpg

too big
http://i39.tinypic.com/jpa98z.png

repeat
http://i42.tinypic.com/168aq1l.jpg

doing it wrong
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=72863111qh0.jpg

Notes:

Rushed post but better than late -

Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

in that particular episode, I think she used male pronouns because the new-half was pre-operation, although if you've seen episode 18 tat included a mid-op new-half and was referred to with female pronouns. I think the subber was just being technical, since japanese rarely uses pronouns in the first place. I wouldn't take any offense. :)

(Preface: I don't have any familiarity with whatever show this is)
Ignoring people's identities and presentation and gendering them purely on the state of their genitals is still very offensive. There's nothing "technical" about it, it's just plain denying them their identification based on the (completely irrelevant) state of their genitalia! The secret poster is totally right to find this irritating.

That's fine and fair, and I completely see where the secret-maker and you are coming from, don't get me wrong. However, it's also not fair to assume that all people specifically want to be referred to as a specific gender-based pronoun. Since that's not touched on in the show and was addressed differently in another episode, I think the fansubber was doing the best she could given the difficulty of translating a language that largely uses no pronouns to one that does (they do use "his" and her" as "kare" and "kanojo", but in this episode they refer to the new-half only by name).

I understand why it would irritate people, but I don't think it's something to get offended by.

I'm really trying not to sound too tetchy here, since the Japanese on the bottom does have "男," "man," buuut. What, exactly, does operation status have to do with gender? There is no 'technical' about it. A transwoman is female, no matter what her body is. Being pre-op doesn't make the use of the wrong pronoun 'technically' okay. I can almost understand where you're coming from (she's still biologically and legally male, etc. etc.), but it's hard not to take offense when you're basically suggesting that it's reasonable to refer to someone pre-op as the wrong gender when you know said person is trans*.

(Yes, I am an angry pre-op FTM, why do you ask?)

Well, actually that screen-grab is more about the person who is talking being kind of oblivious and inconsiderate, however the secret-maker is right about the rest of the show's subs referring to the new-half as he/him. So it's kind of irrelevant, but not. lol

I understand what you mean, though. I really do. I am in no way trying to imply that a pre-op transwoman should be referred to as male. But just as it is face to face, it's hard to know what pronouns to use sometimes. And since the hosts of the segment seem to be referring to the new-half as 'still' a man (kind of rudely, yes), that is probably why the subs, including the narration, were worded that way.

Again, I'm not necessarily agreeing with that take, and I might be 100% wrong about why this certain fansubber chose to use the wording she did. But I honestly believe it wasn't meant out of offense, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents on the matter.

Things don't just become inoffensive just because offense wasn't intended. It's still wrong! And I think you're muddying things with the subber's intent anyways; the person is finding the male pronouns being used for trans women offensive. That's what I took as the intent behind the secret, not really that it mattered much if the subber was doing it themselves. That would be bad too, but it's still bad even if the subber is being faithful because, well ... it's still offensive? I wouldn't blame the subber for that, it's their job to be accurate, but you know, you can find the SHOW offensive for it still. Because ... it is.

And please, don't start with this "it's hard to know what pronouns to use sometimes" nonsense. If the person in front of you is obviously presenting themselves as a woman (or at least making an effort to do so) the only decent thing to do would be to refer to them as one! That's what you'd do with anyone else; you're just letting the fact that they're trans confuse you when this is a very simple issue. And if you mess up initially, just apologize and don't do it again.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this, at this point you're probably not going to see this, are you? >_>;

[ SECRET POST #756 ]

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