fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #757 ]

[ SECRET POST #757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Higurashi]

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[Higurashi, Miyo Takano]

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[Spider-Girl]

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[Onyanko Club]

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[Chowder]

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[School Days]

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[Skins]

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[Demons, Ruby/Rupert]

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[Ayreon, Magali Luyten]

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[Gurren Lagann]

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[Heroes]

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[Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother]

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[Supernatural]

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[Gundam Wing]

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167. [repeat]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 525 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I feel similarly. I like some slash but that's fantasy to me. Not reality.

If someone likes furries does that mean they have to like the idea of it irl? Or if someone ships incest does that mean they have to approve of that irl? Or if someone thinks vampires biting and sucking blood is hot does that mean they have to want to bite and suck someone's blood irl?

Fandom can just be fantasy.

Did you just compare gay relationships to fucking furries, vampires, and incest?

What a massive idiot you must be.

There's really nothing idiotic about it. Yeah, gay relationships happen in reality, but the gay relationships of fantasy are often quite removed from that reality.

THANK YOU.

Well, I agree that fantasy and reality are certainly different, but I don't think that's an excuse to fetishize homosexuality then oppose the rights of gay men in real life. Especially since unlike furries and vampire, homosexuality actually exists. And unlike incest, gay relationships aren't illegal (in this country) and mostly abusive.

So, I still think the comparison was insensitive and could have been worded in a much less ridiculous way. I also think it was a lame defense of the secret-maker's original flawed point.

I never said it was an excuse, just that it's a perfectly valid comparison that people are only taking exception to because the other things listed are very negative in real life.

Well, furries do exist, but if any "furry rights" movement exists, I don't know of it, and it's a far cry from people who want basic rights afforded to heterosexual couples. And maybe fictional gay couples aren't that close to reality- I haven't been in a same-sex relationship, I wouldn't know- but that doesn't mean you can or should enjoy slash yet deny GLTB people their rights in real life.

Furries exist? I thought furries were human-animal hybrids?

Furries usually refers to people who are attracted to anthromorphic animals. They dress up in animal costumes (fursuits) and hook up from time to time. So, yes, they do exist.

Re: #166

3goodtimes.livejournal.com - 2009-02-01 00:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: #166

xenafox.livejournal.com - 2009-02-01 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: #166

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-01 02:06 (UTC) - Expand

According to Wikipedia, "furry" refers to fans of anthromorphic animals. It also says that about 2% of them are zoophiles, so I was wrong about that.

The point is not that you should enjoy slash yet deny LGBTQ people their rights - the point is that you can do that.

Well, yes, one can, because hypocrisy isn't a logical fallacy. But the rest of us are justified in calling out the people who do so as giant dicks.

Re: #166

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-01 02:07 (UTC) - Expand

I realize that there is a shit-ton of discussion in response to this, but I really think you summed it up perfectly. IAWTC.

Oh, for God's sake. Zoophilia and incest cause actual harm. Same-sex relationships cause no such thing. (And before someone comes in here quoting bullshit statistics, please make sure you're actually using a non-biased source.)

1) Furry != Zoophilia.
2) You're missing the point.

You're missing the point.

How so? This person is claiming (as anti-gay people often do) that because some people are into furries or incest or vampirism in fiction and don't support them in real life., the same applies to slash. I pointed out that enjoying some things in fiction that have the potential to cause harm in real life is different than refusing to support a cause that a.) causes no harm to anyone, and b.) is only about people who want the same basic rights afforded to heterosexual couples.

Yes, I know - your response is disconnected from the OP's point, which is simply "Fantasy != Reality." That has nothing to do with refusal to support a cause. Also, the point was not that those things are negative or harmful in real life (and in fact, furry relationships aren't, nor are freaky vampire kid ones as long as it's all consensual), but that they are fantasies and do not necessarily reflect a person's view of reality.

"Yeah, homos are totally HOT, but that doesn't mean they should be treated like real people with RIGHTS. Losers."

Damn, you fail.

Heh, I feel like a minority in that I have no interest in fictional versions of things I do not believe in/support in real life. If I believe incest is wrong, I am not going to enjoy a fictional version of it, etc. I honestly have a hard time wrapping my brain around people enjoying fiction of things they'd find illegal or immoral or exploitative in real life.

So going the other way, I find of course gay marriage is relevant just by being a part of the whole picture in terms of the rights of homosexuals, and I have a really hard time understanding liking and being interested in homosexuality in fiction without supporting equality in real life.

And I'm sure that's too much srs bsns for a place like this, but whatevs.

I would say it definitely isn't, actually. And I'm glad that you're at least being consistent. If you can like something but condemn it in real life, like rape and incest, then it should be easy to see how fantasy != reality even in cases like this where keeping that divide hurts people

Yeah I have a really hard time with the != divide. I just can't read something and separate it from real life. I couldn't read about rape and find it exciting, regardless of the story context, because I can't separate it from real people I've known who've suffered. *shrug* I know I sound uptight. Which is probably why I keep fandom at arm's length sometimes and don't delve into fic. I feel like sometimes it desensitizes people and I hate wasting my energy worrying about that when it's none of my business, I guess.

I agree with you, generally.

Heh, I feel like a minority in that I have no interest in fictional versions of things I do not believe in/support in real life. If I believe incest is wrong, I am not going to enjoy a fictional version of it, etc. I honestly have a hard time wrapping my brain around people enjoying fiction of things they'd find illegal or immoral or exploitative in real life.

I wanna address this just because I think there's an interesting conversation to be had here.

Healthy, functional relationships have a pretty hard time being interesting. There's a reason that most storytelling revolves around conflict. So I figure whatever portion of our psyches allows for flawed, unhealthy characters and relationships in drama can be extended to many aspects of human behavior through the medium of storytelling.

There's a 'what if' element, too.

There's a difference between, "It's just fantasy," and "I'm going to deny the rights of real people because I only care about the fantasy."

Mutually consenting adults of sound mind should be able to enter into a equally beneficial legal contract to validate their union.

If any of your examples falls under that? Go for it.

Regardless, to get to the apparent spirit of your argument - two out of those three things are not real. A person who drinks blood is not a vampire, and at the moment the best that furries who are sexually attracted to them (as not all of the furry crowd is) must settle for full-body suits. But furries DO tend to fight for their fetish being seen as a legitimate one and not something that makes them "Sick", and most people who are a fan of incest do realize the IRL ramifications of such an act.

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