fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #757 ]

[ SECRET POST #757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[Higurashi]

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[Higurashi, Miyo Takano]

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[Spider-Girl]

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[Onyanko Club]

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[Chowder]

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[Skins]

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[Demons, Ruby/Rupert]

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[Ayreon, Magali Luyten]

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[Heroes]

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[Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother]

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[Gundam Wing]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 525 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

...So what is there besides 'gays should be allowed to marry' and 'gays should not be allowed to marry?'

Kinda puzzled.

Well, people who define 'marriage' as something strictly between a man and a woman may not see it as a right but rather a physical impossiblity, in the same way that a pair of gay men can't really have a baby together with just the two of them.

Or, people who see marriage as an entirely religious institution could care less whether you're gay or not, but think that individual religions should have say over who can and cannot marry.

There are also people who think that homosexual relationships are just fine, on a sexual basis, but don't require the same government assistance

And, strange as it seems, there are people in the world who accept homosexuality in certain circumstances but condem it as a generalization - like my grandmother, who was always accepting of her gay friend even though she is strictly anti-homosexuality in the rest of her life.

The thing is that in the USA, marriage has a strictly defined legal meaning-- and it does not have anything to do with religion. It is a governmental state. You can be married in the office of a justice of the peace with 'Proud Atheist' t-shirts on. Infertile people can marry; childbearing ability is not a factor.

Marriage confers a list of legal privileges-- visitation, power of attorney, next of kind. It's not some nebulous religious concept that gays want just to feel good-- it is a specific legal right with real repercussions in their lives.

Next of kin, excuse me.

Sure, I agree. But not everybody thinks the way that we do and it would be rather narsassistic of us to think otherwise.

Holy shit.

It is not narcissistic to-- you really think it's okay to believe that people do not deserve the legal rights of other people because 'gosh, it's icky' or 'my religion says they're poopy pantses?'

A legal battle is not a place for namby pamby 'oh, but people think differently.'

UNDER OUR LEGAL GOVERNING BODY, THEY ARE PEOPLE, OR THEY AREN'T.

As long as those people aren't completely controling our legal system - which, may I remind you, they are not, or gay marriage would not even be a debate - then yes. It is not a government's responsiblity to police the thoughts and beliefs of its people. That all people are free to believe what they wish is the fundamental foundation of the United States.

'Well, obviously I support black people's rights to vote, but some people think they're inferior mud people touched by the sin of the sons of Noah and shouldn't be allowed to own property, let alone get near a voting booth. But that's totally understandable, and we have to let these people have their point of view, too. It would be narcissistic to think that EVERYONE believes they're human.'

Well, it's not like you can change the minds of the world's assholes, no matter how much you yell at them, so as long as they keep their crazy to themselves and don't hurt anybody, it's better for everyone involved to just leave them alone. If they run for office, vote against them. Don't engage in debate with them, don't purchase their wares if it really bothers you that much. Is that simple.

But we have the right to find it disgusting when racists think them negras sure is hot (even if they should still be on the plantation) and when people like the OP think mm, boys kissing sure is sexy but they should be denied legal rights because that's just better.

You have fun being super PC and inclusive, though.

Sure you have the right. Everybody has the right. I just find life is much easier to deal with if you go by the 'live and let live' school of thought. Raising your blood pressure over every little thought crime is just gonna give you a heart attack all that sooner.

I'll take principles over low blood pressure any day.

To each their own. ^_^ Personally, I'd rather save my blood pressure for times when people's actions get me angry. I can actually do something about that.

If you don't get angry when people are voting for things like Prop 8, when *do* you get angry, out of interest?

Voting is an action - I got pissed off about that, but at the same time I feel like I should be trying to get the laws in my home state changed before I mess with the state of California. (Seriously, Texas has enough hypocrasy in its reputation without bullying California over gay marriage -.-;)

I also get mad when people ban or challenge books, when I hear someone being actively harassed for any reason, not to mention over crimes, lies and all the normal things that people get pissed off about. I just think it's silly to try to tell people that they MUST think they way I do. I mean, how would that make me any different from a Bible-thumping born-again evangelist?

How the fuck does legislation that removes people's rights not constitute harassment? It's not about the fact that they must think the wya you do - it's about the fact that they are not allowed to remove people's rights because of their beliefs. How is that not WORSE than telling a lie? How do you feel about white collar crime? As long as it's not in-your-face and obvious, you're alright with it? That's how it seems when you say you're not okay with harassment but you're fine with legislation that's much worse.

Brace yourself, because I have something here that might just blow your mind - thought leads to action!

Earlier on you defended people's right to spew hatred because it's just "thought crime" and can't be policed. You prefer to live and let live - although I'm sure if you were gay or black or trans or any other form of unacceptable minority you'd probably have a different philosophy. It's harder to live and let live when you are far more likely to be the victim of a hate crime.

Do you think attacks on transexual people, the tragic passing of Prop 8, or the systematic homophobia inherent in our society comes from equal-minded citizens who are just doing it for the lulz? Or do you think it comes from those who already consider said minorities to be unnatural and, therefore, a little less human? It's not actions that these people are working from. It's THOUGHT. You don't read about a transexual woman being shot for being transexual and say "Hey, whatevs, might as well get in on this." You do it if you've already dehumanized said individual IN YOUR MIND and can therefore afford to constitute outrageous acts of violence that you would be incapable of if you thought of them as a human being. THAT is why thought is harmful. It leads to violent and discriminatory action. I can't even believe I need to explain this.

I'm not advocating that we immediately ban any form of thought that is hateful, because I'm very much pro-free speech. But I don't see why we can't respond to those thoughts without the denigration of "thought police". Do you call women who don't laugh at rape jokes feminazis?

"I just think it's silly to try to tell people that they MUST think they way I do. I mean, how would that make me any different from a Bible-thumping born-again evangelist?"
Because (presumably, if you actually support gay marriage) you're thinking in the way of equality, dignity, human and civil rights. A bible-thumping born-again evangelist is not. I also used to worry about not being tolerant enough of bigots, until I realized that intolerance is not solved by the other sides tolerance. Sure, there are many ethical issues where there are gray areas and all thought should be considered. Any issue involving human rights does not have this gray area. If you are against gay marriage you are (as much as some people won't like to admit it and talk about their gay friends forever) anti-gay. If you are for it, you are not. And frankly, if I met someone who told me they thought gay people shouldn't get married - even if they didn't vote for Prop 8 or any other equivalent in their state or country or WHATEVER - I would not introduce them to my gay friends period. I don't care if they would treat them just as civilly as anyone else. I don't want to object my friends to a relationship where the other person would look at them and see something other than a human being.

That's called privilege, sweet pea.

Yeah that's great, except when we're talking about discrimination like this your "live and let live" is actually "live, and ignore the refusal to let live". Which is a real awesome A++ way to be, but as long as your blood pressure is fine I guess it's all just dandy.

y helo thar moral relativism

The majority should not be given the choice to decide the rights of the minority. That is not democracy, that is mob rule.

End of argument.

Well, people who define 'marriage' as something strictly between a man and a woman may not see it as a right but rather a physical impossiblity, in the same way that a pair of gay men can't really have a baby together with just the two of them.

If the point of marriage is children, infertile men and women, and menopausal women, should be barred from marrying.

Or, people who see marriage as an entirely religious institution...<.i>

Here in the U.S., marriage is not entirely religious, so, they're just plain wrong.

but think that individual religions should have say over who can and cannot marry.

Religions ARE allowed to decide who they'll allow to get married in their church. Legally recognized marriage is another thing entirely.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #757 ]

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