[ SECRET POST #5245 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5245 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 39 secrets from Secret Submission Post #751.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure the point of Civil War was supposed to be that Cap and Tony were both being idiots and dragging everyone else down with them because their individual personal dramas had them so far up their own asses that they couldn't have a grownup discussion about the issue. Unfortunately, the loudest fans on both sides are completely rabid, so fandom doesn't get to have the grownup discussion either.

[(Anonymous)]

Except Steve didn't have his head in his own ass at all. Whether he was right or not about the Accords, he genuinely believed they were wrong. And everything else he did was either to protect Bucky, who was actually innocent and deserved protection, or to go destroy what he believed were the other super soldiers created by Hydra.

Tony was the only one being an ass. Which was frustrating because I think he was actually right that there needed to be laws in place. But he went about it the wrong way, and everything else he did was so wrong-headed that it ruined any chance of it being a balanced movie with both sides equally wrong or right.

[(Anonymous)]

this this this this

[(Anonymous)]

+infinity to all of this

[(Anonymous)]

Lol. Steve deciding to butt into the operation to capture the guy suspected to have bombed the UN and then broke out of custody, is why in-world people from all over the world and politicians, especially good ones like Wakandans, think that Avengers need oversight.

You as the viewer know that Steve is the good guy, and his actions are ultimately good, but insuring police officers in a UN country to prevent them from capturing an escaped suspect terrorist, just because he thinks that his friend is innocent,with no proof to back it up, is why in-universe people in other countries hate Avengers and think they need oversight and accountability.

Tony fucked up in a major way multiple times, but I also think that the fact that he himself ignores rules is not contradictory, but one of the reasons why he wants oversight. He does not trust himself to make the right decisions, so he wants someone to stop him if it becomes necessary, by any means.

What he definitely should have done is talk to the rest of the team months before when accords were in the conception stage, provided he himself knew.

Him bringing spider-man was really messed up. By accords protocols and in-world common sense, he should have let the accords special forces, or whatever they created, capture the avengers. Unfortunately, at that point the orders to those people would have been 'neutralize the threat by any means', and not 'capture alive'. Tony's goal was to not have his colleagues and friends killed, which is why he brought the superpowered kid and did not let Ross handle the capturing. And also UN nuking Team Cap would probably have made for a very unsatisfactory movie, so nobody went there.

Marvel tries to make their movies more realistic, but ultimately fails, since realism does not go with black and white morality, and narrative needing heroes need to win and win honorably.

And some viewers can't even grasp the difference between in-world perspective and actions, and their own perspective as a viewer. Which is why here we are years later, again.

[(Anonymous)]

You did not mention Spider-Man, sorry, it was someone down thread, you just thought Steve is justified in thinking that his decisions are right and he does not have to explain himself to anyone and do what the hell he wants, as long as he turns out to be right in the end, which is a very dangerous way of thinking for anyone. In-universe a superpowered person behaving that way has to make a lot of people uncomfortable enough to prefer him to be a civilian.

[(Anonymous)]

This all the way!

[(Anonymous)]

This, so much this!

[(Anonymous)]

Steve was trying to prevent more deaths. If Bucky was truly that far gone, steve was likely the only one who could bring him in without getting killed. Also, the authorities weren't trying to bring Bucky in; they were planning to kill him outright without any kind of judicial process or trial. I guess you think extra-judicial murder is OK when it's someone you don't like.

[(Anonymous)]

Kind of like how you think violating international laws to aid and abet mass-murdering terrorists is cool as long the terrorists (because let’s be clear - at this point, Steve is also a terrorist as far as the people he is terrorizing are concerned) are hot guys that you want to watch fuck?

[(Anonymous)]

Except Bucky wasn't a mass-murdering terrorist at that point, and even if he had been, he still deserved a trial.

[(Anonymous)]

All those people he murdered came back from the dead? Damn, why wasn't the movie about that?

[(Anonymous)]

He was brainwashed when he killed them, so I don't think that counts as doing it of his own volition.

[(Anonymous)]

Look, even if you expect the authorities in universe to believe that the Winter Soldier is a victim, Steve basically stole a nuclear missile. And maybe he thinks he’s the only person in the world who could disarm it (debatable), but as far as the rest of the world is concerned, now he’s a rogue super soldier with a nuke.

[(Anonymous)]

A nuke? Seriously? The Winter Soldier is an assassin, not a detonation.

[(Anonymous)]

The Winter Soldier was not a nuclear missile, and he deserved due process of the law. It's honestly creeping me out how pro-authoritarian some people in this fandom are. OP is right.

[(Anonymous)]

"I guess you think extra-judicial murder is OK when it's someone you don't like.“

It's a thought experiment about a hypothetical situation where we should decide on how to apprehend someone who bombed the UN building escaped in a big densely populated city, with nobody in universe being able to tell his real intentions.

Of course I believe in trials and proving someone is guilty, I am also against death penalty. But the situation here is not that simple.

From an in universe POV Bucky just blew up the UN building and escaped from containment by destroying parts of another building.
There were many deaths and injuries caused by the first and at least some injuries caused by the latter.

I assume people, in-universe, are in panic over a terrorist who blew up the UN building escaping, and so are the governments of the country wherever the conference takes place and neighboring countries. They have no idea who Bucky is, but with the history of terroristic acts in EU countries (and iirc this was in EU) they are in their right to fear for further explosions in places/buildings with a lot of people.

At that point a government that does not know who Bucky is, has to asses whether he is dangerous, whether he would cause more explosions, and whether trying to apprehend a superpowered potential terrorist alive is worth the risk of giving him time to execute another terrorist act, or two, or whatever else he could do.

I am also sure a regular citizen of the country prefers a terrorist who was confirmed to have bombed the UN assembly to be neutralized, preferably not at cost of more lives of fellow citizens.

Nobody wants anyone to die, but it's fellow citizens (possibly your friends and family) over the guy who blew up a building. At least for most people, usually. Well, I hope it is for my government. Or would you gamble on another terroristic act (with possibility of your friends and family being injured), just so that that a random guy who already blew up people can get a trial?

So yeah, from in-universe POV Steve is a self-righteous asshole who gambles the safety of people in that city to save Bucky.

No wonder nobody wants him to run around without having people he answers to being able to stop him from doing stupid shit at any point it seems necessary

[(Anonymous)]

LOL

[(Anonymous)]

You're right and you should say it.