fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5276 ]

[ SECRET POST #5276 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5276 ⌋

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I started the thread, but decided to post here instead, in order to not make the thread all about me (even though I started it because I want to talk about my sleep disorder, lol).

I discovered last year that I have Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder, which basically means that my body thinks the proper time for me to sleep is from 5AM to 1-2PM, and it's set in that norm. Various treatments for DSPD are sometimes somewhat effective, but the efficacy of treatment is documented as being quite low, and the condition is considered incurable. I've had DSPD since I was a teen (when it usually sets in), and it's been semi-disabling for me ever since, but I didn't discover it was an actual thing until last year. I basically figured I was just too messed up and undisciplined to sleep and get up like a normal person.

In May I talked to a sleep specialist who prescribed me Modafinil. I also started working out in the early afternoon, which I think has been helping a bit as well. I've gotten up before noon everyday for a month now, which is pretty huge for me. When I think about the likelihood that it won't last, I get really sad, though. I've been fighting this my whole life and nothing has ever worked. No progress I make ever lasts. The Modafinil is the new factor in the situation, but IDK if it's something I can take forever, and even if it is, surely I'll have to up the dosage to a problematic amount at some point, right?

But at least for right now it's going pretty good, which is something!

Have you looked into getting a night job or swing shift? Those are idea hours to sleep for working those shifts.

Yeah, my first job was second shift and I had no problem but then moved to third shift and felt better than I'd felt in my entire life.

But then stuff happened and unemployment caused me to realize my body's natural "day" is apparently about 26 hours rather than 24, so without an actual schedule I just kept creeping back and swinging around to normal hours eventually, then creeping back some more and being nocturnal...

But once I got a job again, I discovered once again that being nocturnal is just the best for me. All the things that they 'warn' about for people working third shift? They happened to me when I was working during the day. Depression, lower immune system, etc. Night shift made it all go away again.

Problem is, most employers don't have people working overnights. :/

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But then stuff happened and unemployment caused me to realize my body's natural "day" is apparently about 26 hours rather than 24

Assuming you're the the anon who started this subthread, and not just someone else replying, it sounds like you don't have delayed sleep phase disorder, but non-24-hour sleep-wake disorder. I suspect I also have this, though I have never gotten a formal diagnosis, since there's no cure anyway.

Ah, no, I'm not any of the other anons here, just someone chiming in with a couple decades of "work doesn't work with my sleep cycle", but for a slightly different reason.

But even with my slightly different issue, working nights caused a noticeable difference in my physical and mental health, so I can vouch for it just being a better option for some folks! I wish I could do my current job third shift. :P

working nights caused a noticeable difference in my physical and mental health, so I can vouch for it just being a better option for some folks!

Out of curiosity, how do you deal with being out of step with the rest of the world? For me it's just so isolating and kind of awful for that reason.

Like, on the one hand, when I have to get up and be functional in the morning, I am just ridiculously depressive. It's like this heavy, miserable pall over me that makes me want to lay down and not get up. And that goes away when I can get up later in the day. Plus the exhaustion from not getting enough sleep also goes away, of course. But on the other hand, when I'm up all night while the world is dark and everything is closed and everyone is sleeping, I get depressive in a different sort of way. It's a much less potent, smothering form of depression than the morning depression, but it also doesn't burn off at 2PM the way the morning depression does. I just go weeks and months feeling isolated and like I'm only halfway living in the world.

Is that not an issue for you, when you work nights?

It really isn't! I seem to be at my most energetic and productive between about midnight and 3am, and it's been that way since I was a kid. I don't associate darkness with depression, anxiety, isolation, etc. because that's not what my experience with darkness has been. My longtime association with darkness is more a sense of relief, like now is the time I'm going to get stuff done. When I worked third shift, I got a ton of writing and drawing done when work wasn't busy (I wrote everything I wrote in the Ace Attorney fandom on my laptop in the back room of a gas station, hahahah), and on my nights off I could do all the housework and then sit down in front of the TV and do a bunch of creative stuff that I couldn't do at work, like sewing or other costuming work.

And when I didn't live alone, my partner would get up in the morning for her job, and we'd have breakfast or whatnot, then I'd drive her to work and I'd go home and go to sleep until it was time to pick her up. Then we could talk about whatever, go home and have dinner, play games and otherwise goof off for awhile before I had to leave for work (or on nights off, before she went to bed). Because she'd sleep when I was working, and I'd sleep when she was working, and it functionally was about the same as if we were both working the same hours and sleeping the same hours.

Interesting. I definitely feel my most energetic between like 8PM and 2AM, but for me that has always amounted to sitting in my room on my computer for long hours while the world sleeps around me, feeling isolated and wishing I hadn't slept through the day so I could maybe, just for once, actually get something done.

My body likes nighttime. My psyche yearns to get up early like everyone else and feel that unity with the world.

OP of the thread - Another person beat me to it, but yeah, you definitely sound like you have non-24-hour sleep syndrome/disorder. I'm right on the border of having it myself. In my case, once I get to the point where I'm going to bed at like 5 or 6 AM, I am able, with effort, to hold my sleep cycle there, but I'm pretty sure if I let myself sleep the way my body wants to, I would circle the clock like you describe. I have to fight it in order to not circle the clock.

Apparently Non-24 is known for being the most disabling of the bunch, so it's great that you've been able to hold steady employment and not become too worn down to function!

All the things that they 'warn' about for people working third shift? They happened to me when I was working during the day. Depression, lower immune system, etc.

Can relate. I've spent most of my life just feeling extremely worn down and incapable of hacking it (and by 'it' I mean anything). I got onto government disability when I was 24, and I basically just accepted that feeling depleted and paper thin all the time was who I was. It's only recently that I've realized I feel about 65% of the way to normal when I'm not trying to function on 70 minutes of sleep at a time of day that my body is screaming at me is NOT A TIME FOR US TO BE AWAKE.

Indeed, I can sort of hold my sleep cycle close to wherever it needs to be if I just accept the fact I'm going to not sleep at all some nights and then sleep for 12 hours every now and then, and it's been like this since I was a kid. My parents of course blamed my inability to get up in the morning on the burst of energy I'd get around midnight-1am that led me to spend the night drawing or writing, but then I grew up, got a night job and loved it, lost the night job and had no schedule at all... realized it wasn't just being "a night owl". Didn't know there was a name for these things and it was a known thing until I was in... I think my late 20s-early 30s, but someone mentioned both DSPD and non-24 in my IRC channel (at like 4am, hahah). I'd already noticed both the pattern of 26-hour days and if not able to do that, being able to sleep best sometime between 11am-9pm, so I found both intriguing. That was during the unemployment, then when I *finally* found work again, they were like "Man we have no full-time positions open... except third shift at the gas station." And I was like ".... :D Hellooooooo there~" Crappy convenience store job, but I did that for five years longer and physically/mentally felt better than ever. (And the managers and customers loved me because I wasn't half-asleep for my shift and was actually happy to help and stuff, hahah.)

So depending on just how bad things are for you, and if it's plausible, highly recommend trying evening/overnight shifts. World of difference.

Though like... now I have a job that pays literally twice as much, and is actually interesting and uses skills and talents I have, but it's 8-5. I think the main reason I'm able to "function" with that schedule - is because I've never been able to function without serious effort. The same GI issues that make me miserable now (and why am I up at 5am? I hadn't been able to swallow anything since 6pm yesterday, tried to take a drink without thinking because I woke up and was thirsty, and my body is punishing me for foolishly thinking it was safe to swallow anything) have been with me since I was 9. I have spent my entire life forcing myself to just "suck it up" and "well it's only unbearable pain and discomfort" and "don't be a wuss, it's not going to actually kill you". Not getting enough sleep/feeling exhausted is by comparison barely a blip on the radar of chronic aaaarrrrgggghhhh. Awfully nice when I didn't have that on top of the worse things though. :P

Not getting enough sleep/feeling exhausted is by comparison barely a blip on the radar of chronic aaaarrrrgggghhhh.

Right, yeah. I guess mornings aren't coupled with intense depression for everyone with the disorder. That's what makes it so hard in my case. The exhaustion is like a quarter of it. My brain telling me with absolutely certainty that life is hopeless and bleak and will be that way forever is the other 4/5ths. And then by mid afternoon that depression is just gone, and I feel like a different person.

Those GI issues sound brutal. :( I honestly didn't know it could get that bad. Gotta remember not to take my complete lack of digestive issues for granted.

I have that too, and the way I've dealt with it is by working afternoon/evening jobs almost exclusively. It's worked really well for me and I've been doing it for decades.

Yeah, this is apparently the advisable path for people with DSPD. Like, it's literally what most doctors who actually know about the disorder will advise you to do.

Unfortunately, I didn't realize my issue was incurable and also more than just some kind of personal failing on my part until I was 32. So I never took any steps to live on the disorder's terms because that always just seemed like failing to get my shit together. I have no degree or certifications, am not likely to have it in me to obtain a degree, and I've never done any kind of nightwork before. So like, I may look into jobs I can do at night. But it's hard to imagine finding anything that's not just going to be minimum-wage-forever kind of work (to be clear, I have no problem with starting at minimum wage, but if there's no opportunity for advancement then that's where I have a problem). Also, I'm on disability, so I don't strictly speaking have to have a job (yes, I know how fortunate I am, I am grateful for it every day). I'd certainly be in more of a hurry to take any night job I could get if I was starring down homelessness on the left or a sleep-deprivation-induced breakdown on the right, and I acknowledge that.

Unsolicited advice here - my first night shift job was with the USPS. They pay well (or did, not sure about now - I have fond memories of that job and my coworkers, and thus Louis DeJoy's BS pisses me off like you would not believe) and have lots of various positions that are worked overnight, sorting mail and whatnot. Good union, nice benefits, and personally I found it really rewarding to help get everyone's cards and letters where they needed to go. (I only left because my other health problems forced me out. :/)

Granted I don't know if you're in the US, but other postal/delivery services tend to have night shifts as well. My sis-in-law started with FedEx (working days, but still) last year and is absolutely living her best life, so seems like they also treat their people well.

So if you're inclined to look for a career, and one that works with your natural sleep cycle, that's a somewhat less obvious option that isn't minimum wage and has some opportunity for advancement.

Wow, thank you for this info! I'm in Canada and I don't know if it's the same here, but I will absolutely look into it!

Gonna be honest, a ton of night jobs don't require degrees and such. They are usually jobs you can do as long as you have a high school diploma and can learn. Look into dispatching (police, firefighters, truckers).

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[ SECRET POST #5276 ]

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