fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #780 ]

⌈ Secret Post #780 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure]

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102.

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103.

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104.

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105.

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106.

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107.

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108.

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109.

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

[ShakespeaRetold; The Taming of the Shrew]

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114.

[Bones]

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115.

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116.

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117.

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118.

[Torchwood]

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119.

[Skins, Freddie]

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120.

[resized]

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121.

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122.

[Nintendo Power, Nester comic]

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123.

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124.

[the lonely island, jorma/andy]

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125.

[Are You Afraid of the Dark?]

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

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130.

[Bill Hicks]

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131.

[Dollhouse]

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132.

[Dr. Horrible]

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133.

[Merlin]

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134.

[Pride and Prejudice]

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135.

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136.

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137.

[Roger Bart]

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138.

[Demon Knight]

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139.

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

[Candy]

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145.

[Knights of the Old Republic]

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146.

[Dr. Who]

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147.

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

[Rockers]

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152.

[Soul Eater]

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153.

[Scrap Heaven]

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154.

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155.

[Avatar]

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156.

[Erin Kelly, Loving Annabelle]

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157.

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158.

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159.

[Joe Biden]

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160.

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161.

[Bleach]

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

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166.

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167.

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168.

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169.

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170.

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171.

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172.

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173.

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174.

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175.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 320 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How about this:
If a woman enjoys yaoi, but can separate it from reality and doesn't project porn stereotypes onto actual (gay) men, then that's perfectly fine.
If a man enjoys lesbian porn or yuri, but can separate it from reality and doesn't project porn stereotypes onto actual lesbians or women in general, it's perfectly fine.
If anyone's enjoyment of porn gets in the way of their ability to see other human beings as individuals and not stereotypes or objects of pleasure, and to treat other human beings as individuals and not stereotypes or objects... then hey, there's a problem here.

Fetishization is NOT opression. Someone can have a kink for two guys going at it and then still treat gay men with compassion and respect and open-mindedness in real life. Why don't we stop playing the Oppression Olympics, and concentrate on stopping what actually harms people? If a gay man feels uncomfortable around a lot of squeeing fangirls that treat him like their yaoi pet, then yeah, they're being insensitive, and should save that kind of talk for when he's not around. If a lesbian couple gets weird propositions from some guy that watched Girls Gone Wild and thinks they really just need a man, that is just not okay and he should educate himself better.

But treating people better based on a scale of how oppressed they are? That really doesn't seem okay to me. Everyone has the right to be treated like a human being, but nobody has the right to not have to play by the same rules just because society is messed up.

Fetishization is NOT opression.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I sincerely feel that fetishization by the power-holder of a comparatively powerless minority is an inherently dehumanizing practice. I understand that it may be involuntary, but, at the same time, that doesn't really make it okay.

But treating people better based on a scale of how oppressed they are? That really doesn't seem okay to me. Everyone has the right to be treated like a human being, but nobody has the right to not have to play by the same rules just because society is messed up.

I can't tell if you're accusing me of doing this. If so, please, inform me where I am doing so? Otherwise, I completely agree with you. My second question was somewhat sarcastic. I don't think that women should somehow get a free pass to fetishize another minority simply because it is socially acceptable for men to fetishize a male-constructed image of "lesbianism."

But fetishization isn't inherently related to being a minority. A member of [insert minority group here] could have a kink for [insert power-holding group here], even though it's less heard of. I agree that fetishizing someone to the point of dehumanization isn't good, but I don't think that's the way it has to be. It might require some actual thought put in that your fantasy isn't real, and the real people in that situation are, you know, real people. How does it harm me if someone finds me sexually attractive, as long as they treat me like a person, too? It's a squicky thing to find out about, but if they're being respectful about it, you don't find out. I don't think it's too much to ask people to think and to have some basic impulse control, and honestly? That's a way better idea than blaming them for being attracted to what they're attracted to. Dealing with people as they are to minimize harm >>> setting rules for people as if they were perfect.

I wasn't necessarily accusing you of doing this (I was more responding to the things you had suggested, because I've heard of several incidences where yaoi fangirls really did overstep their boundaries when it came to real gay men), but yes, I think you are treating people differently if they're oppressed. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a problem with women fetishizing straight men, like in Playgirl or something (and if you think that anyone having a kink for anything is bad, there really isn't a middle ground we can come to). But because homosexuals are an oppressed group, you're acting like some girl looking up her fanfic is contributing to homophobia in society today. (In fact, one good thing you can say about yaoi fangirls is that a lot of them really do care about gay people getting better treatment by society. Try approaching one and saying that you really didn't care about proposition 8.) Women don't get a free pass to make ~~gay men~~ any men feel sexually harrassed simply because male privilege exists. Neither do oppressed groups get a free pass out of people being sexually attracted to them, as long as those attracted are respectful and NOT CREEPY about it. That's why we have things like "Warning: yaoi/slash" or "Warning: [insert character/same-gender-character pairing here" or "This convention event is for the 18+ crowd and may contain adult themes". Nobody's hurt by girls liking yaoi, or girls sharing yaoi with people who have similar interests. People get hurt when those stupid yaoi paddles come out and anyone thinks it's okay to treat people like their sex objects.

I don't really mind being offended (I think more people should learn to deal with it better), but both the "girls can do anything they want in fandom because it's their sexual space" and "having a thing for yaoi means you treat gay men like objects" points of view really fucking bother me.

Also, what about the yuri fangirls? Are they oppressing themselves?

[ SECRET POST #780 ]

Re: 127

Re: 127

Re: 127

Re: 127