[ SECRET POST #791 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #791 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Ze Frank, Ze Fronk]


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103.


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104.


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105.
(The Chuckle Brothers)


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106.
[Ace Attorney opera]


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107.


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108.


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109.


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110.
[Law & Order: SVU]


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111.
[How I Met Your Mother; Barney Stinson(Neil Patrick Harris) & Robin Scherbatsky]


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112. [repeat]


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113.


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114.


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115.
[Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory]


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116.
[Pineapple Express: Dale/Saul]


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117.
[Hand of Mercy]


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118.
[Juno, Mark/Juno]


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119.


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120.
[Yu Yu Hakusho]


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121.
[Katekyo Hitman Reborn]


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122.


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123.
[TMNT]


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124.
[Code Lyoko/Detective Conan]


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125.


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126.


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127.


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128.


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129.


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130.
[Adrian Pasdar/Jesse Spencer]


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131.


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132. [repeat]


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133.


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134.
[FLCL; Evangelion; ChaosHead; Serial Experiments Lain; Fate/Stay Night]


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135.


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136.


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137.
[One Tree Hill]


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138.
[Cheers/Frasier]


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139.


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140.


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141.
[BSG]


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142.


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143.


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144.


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145.


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146.


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147.


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148.
[Skins]


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149.


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150.
[Mega Man Star Force/Ryuusei no Rockman]


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151.


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152.
[Supernatural]


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153.


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154.
[Armored Trooper Votoms/Neon Genesis Evangelion]


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155.


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156.


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157.
[Bounen no XamD]


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158.
[The Office/Summer Heights High]


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159.


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160.
[Sarah Silverman/Liam Lynch]


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161.
[Tales From The Crypt - 'Let The Punishment Fit The Crime']


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162.


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163.


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164.


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165.
[The Adventures of Shirley Holmes]



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #113.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 146

[oldstarnewshine.livejournal.com]

*standing ovation*

Re: 113, 146

[(Anonymous)]

This. A thousand times this.

When it comes to the elitist fans, they're the ones really doing Watchmen a disservice by turning people off from reading it (giving the impression that all of the fans are assholes). It's a damn shame.

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

NO DUDE I DID READ IT
I DID READ IT
AND I DID UNDERSTAND IT
AND I STILL DIDN'T LIKE IT

TRUST ME YOU GUYS IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, I totally said right there in my secret that I wasn't demanding anyone else change their tastes in stuff. What I was saying was that I'm sick of being treated like I'm somehow missing something because I don't think it's the best thing ever written. And, hey, I'm sure it's great for you that you haven't encountered attitudes like this, but me? I work in a comic book shop, (where normally it's cool to talk about it when things suck, I mean, it's not like we're running the kind of operation where you have to act like everything is good in order to sell it), and it's reached the point where I've taken to just shutting the hell up when discussions with regular customers about Watchmen start because otherwise I'll be treated to yet another lecture about how if I don't like it, I just don't get it and I should totally read it again because if I do now that they have told me all these things that I already knew, I will be more able to appreciate its genius!!

It's cool if you like it. That is fine. It is also cool if you think it is totally subtle and realistic in every feasible way, but I would like to be able to think it is none of these things without being told I am unequivocally wrong. My experience of reality is obviously not the same as yours! WHO'D HAVE THUNK.

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't got a single decent argument against the comic? Yeah, that's because I'm not actually arguing against the comic. At no point have I actually gone into my reasons for disliking it in any kind of depth, so I have no idea where you're pulling 'vitriolic rants' from. I've said twice now that I respect people's right to like Watchmen, and their right to think it's the best fucking thing ever if that's what they think. Seriously. I do. What I have a problem with is being told that I have no right to disagree with them. What makes me angry is being treated as if disagreeing with them means I'm either mentally deficient or have just failed to pick up on something that I'll understand if only they explain to me. I don't 'butt heads' with people at work – at work, I nod and smile. I posted this secret here because I wanted to vent somewhere. I don't vent at work because I like to get on with my customers. Many of them are nice people.

Possibly you are confusing other people's responses with mine? Seriously, if you want to put Watchmen on a pedestal, that is totally fine by me. All I ask is that you don't treat me like a moron for not doing the same.

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, um, what? Do you even know what 'vitriol' means? Do I have to repeat myself again? I'm not criticising Watchmen. I'm not saying you can't like it. I'm not expressing hatred for people who like it.

I am expressing frustration with people treating me as if I have no right to my own opinion on the matter.

I know you said you have simply no patience for poor little ignorant me, but maybe if you pointed out what exactly about my being pissed off by people telling me that I have to agree with them on a subjective matter otherwise my opinion is invalid is 'vitriolic' or 'missing the point', then maybe I would 'get it'. But seriously, all I've seen you repeat 'over and over again' is patronising waffle.

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, seriously. Art is subjective. I thought that was, like, common knowledge or something.

146 OP

[(Anonymous)]

Dude what the fuck? I'm going to assume you haven't actually been to art school, because ... uh, no. Yes, there is generally a widespread view that certain things are intellectually superior to other things, but when it comes right down to it, people's interpretations of what exactly constitutes art is not consistent, even among people whose entire job is to research and define it.

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

If something bores me to tears and leaves me wanting to never, ever watch (or read) it again? Personally, I would consider that movie (comic, etc) bad, even if it was once considered masterfully crafted and epic. I don't think something being great or unique or epic at the time excuses it from being considered bad outside of the time it was created.

Watchmen was unique and revolutionary when it came out. The art and writing might have been considered great. But personally I don't think it stands up over time.

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

The greatness of a work of art is judged by the craftsmanship, its design, its aesthetic appeal, its meaning, and the effectiveness with which it conveys this meaning. Personal opinion and taste, being subjective and unique to every person in the world, therefore has no bearing on whether or not a piece of art is good or bad.

Craftsmanship, design, aesthetic appeal, meaning, and the effectiveness with which something conveys its meaning are all subjective and unique between differen people too. I may think something conveys its deep meaning well, you may think its shallow dreck, something may have been cosidered cutting edge design only to be discovered to be lacking compred to early designs, etc.

Just because some (or even most) people believe something to be great, or revolutioary, or epic doesn't make it absolutely so, nor does it mean it will always be.

Whether something is good or bad comes down to a personal level. To me, Watchmen is not a great work of art. To me, Watchmen is bad. And no matter who else believes otherwise won't change whether or not I find it to be lacking.

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

My whole point has been that there is no unchanging, universal definition of what is good and what is bad. What one era, or society, or group of people considers good, another may consider bad. Even scholars over the course of time change their collective minds on what is considered "good" or "bad".

Some may consider Watchmen a great book. Society at large may consider it great. But that in no way means that it is universally considered great, or that it will continue to be considered great as time goes on. Whether something is good or bad comes down to a personal level, no matter how society or scholars or whoever else at large feel. And on a personal level, I find it bad.

I guess we just won't come to terms on this, because as near as I can figure we each just fundamentally believe differently on how subjective "good" and "bad" are.

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

Are you fucking kidding me? Do you even know what a critic is and how much their OPINION affects what or who they review?

Also, scholars are people too. Everything in the Arts is subjective. It's just that we consider some people's opinions more important than others either because of their education, their experience, or both.

Re: 146

[shiplizard.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I love that the anon doesn't consider that what bores them may not bore everyone else.

Because lawl, my experiences is are universal?

(I read Watchmen. I got the point. I went Eh. I like Top Ten much better. ...also Tom Strong, which I think was Alan Moore gently saying 'I actually do like superhero comics, chums,' after his big Watchmen 'you know this is all a bit silly don't you?' But I don't think Watchmen is bad.)

Re: 146

[shiplizard.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's books. Books are for fun. Getting angry-debate about books is also fun, but only to the point BEFORE you get persecution-complex to the cold unfeeling internet.

I wonder if the OP really encountered people who called them an idiot for not liking watchmen, or whatever they were asserting (..okay, no, reading the comments here I can believe it, but why the OP bothered to take them seriously.)

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

Because lawl, my experiences is are universal?

This is the point I'm trying to make. Experience isn't universal. What a person, a society, an era, a religion might consider good, another might consider bad. Just like there is no end-all-be-all of what the "correct" experiences are, there is not end-all-be-all of what is good or bad. It comes down to a personal, subjective level.

I love that the anon doesn't consider that what bores them may not bore everyone else.

That's just it. I do consider that. But I take it farther than that into considering what some find good/bad may not be considered good/bad by everyone.

And I hope I'm not coming off as angry or seeming like I'm calling others idiots. And I'm certainly not saying people aren't entitled to their own experiences and opinions. I just don't believe "good" or "bad" are as rigidly defined or as universal as voorishsign seems to believe. :)

Re: 146

[postal152.livejournal.com]

You deserve an award for this.

I find it irritating when people make the argument, "I didn't like it, therefore it was bad." Yes, art is partially subjective, but there's a lot more to it than liking it or disliking it, and there are many, many other factors. To me this whole attitude seems narrow-minded.

Re: 146

[(Anonymous)]

My whole point though has been that something being good or bad is subjective. I didn't like it, therefore it was bad to me. You may not find it bad, and that's fine too.

The attitude that seems narrow to me is the "No matter what you thought was wrong with it, no matter how bad you think it is, it's good and that's that" argument.