case: (Default)
Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2009-03-07 04:51 pm

[ SECRET POST #792 ]


⌈ Secret Post #792 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Charlie Bartlett, Mean Girls]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 450 secrets from Secret Submission Post #114.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - empty comment ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

117

[identity profile] malle-babbe.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Go to the library, borrow Joanna Russ's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Russ) Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters, Puritans & Perverts, read "Pornography by Women for Women, With Love", lather, rinse, repeat before terminal flaming takes over this thread.

*Yes*, there aren't many female characters in slash fic, *but* the fact that slash fic is mostly written by women, and it is at its core, women writing about what gets them off (sex for its own sake? For *gasp* FUN, even?) is rather subversive from a mainstream perspective. Hell, Russ wrote some of the landmarks works of Feminist SF, is openly gay, and was cranking out K/S fics before a great number of folks in this comm were born.

Re: 117

[identity profile] scarlet-carsons.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
'*Yes*, there aren't many female characters in slash fic, *but* the fact that slash fic is mostly written by women, and it is at its core, women writing about what gets them off (sex for its own sake? For *gasp* FUN, even?)'

But we're only getting off on it because that's what the patriachy has conditioned us to get off on! Instead, we should be getting off on things that have been approved by other feminists!

Personal agency? Whassat?

Re: 117

[identity profile] malle-babbe.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Last time I checked, patriarchy wasn't all that copacetic with homosexuality. Or with women in general being aroused by anything.

Re: 117

(Anonymous) 2009-03-08 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
That's quite a pretty argument you've fashioned from straw there.

Re: 117

[identity profile] scarlet-carsons.livejournal.com 2009-03-08 10:15 am (UTC)(link)
I was being sarcastic, in case it wasn't clear.

Sadly, I have seen firsthand plenty of arguments along the lines of, 'you cannot like (x), because you only like it because the patriachy says you should - instead you should like (y), because it has my feminist approval'.

I'm not saying all feminists try to argue that, but a vocal minority do. The 'YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE IT' argument has been applied to all sorts of things, from BDSM to housewifery to shaving.

After a certain point, I'm inclined to roll my eyes and continue to just keep doing the things that make me happy.

Re: 117

[identity profile] botherd.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
This. I don't think many slash fics are feminist texts, but the act of writing slash can definitely be feminist.

Re: 117

(Anonymous) 2009-03-07 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
If slash is feminist, then by that logic, femslash panders to the patriarchy.

Can't we just like whatever the hell we want to like, gender(s) aside?

- a female fan of het/slash/femslash

Re: 117

[identity profile] malle-babbe.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
How? Are you just being internet contrary, or asking a legitimate question? It isn't so much the content (m/m, f/f, f/m) of the sexually explicit fic, but the fact that it is women expressing and interest in sex beyond seeing it as something to be endured to make others happy that is the factor with the potential to be something amazing.

Re: 117

(Anonymous) 2009-03-07 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
"Are you just being internet contrary, or asking a legitimate question?"

That was intended as a legitimate question. What I meant by it was, we should be able to like what we like, without pandering to anybody, or worrying about who´s pandering to whom. (Sorry for the badly-worded response.)

"but the fact that it is women expressing and interest in sex beyond seeing it as something to be endured to make others happy"

Exactly! I agree with this part.

Re: 117

[identity profile] malle-babbe.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Understood. I guess I was just cutting to the chase real quick to avoid getting into a unneeded argument fueled by the awkwardness of text only conversations.

Re: 117

[identity profile] botherd.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
If slash is feminist, then by that logic, femslash panders to the patriarchy.

Not really. I don't think femslash panders to straight men, just like slash doesn't pander to gay men - they may enjoy it, but that's not really why it's created.

(I should probably amend my previous statement about writing slash being feminist; I think women writing their own porn for their own enjoyment is feminist, and that applies to het and femslash too.)

Can't we just like whatever the hell we want to like, gender(s) aside?

Absolutely.

Re: 117

[identity profile] misterthursday.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Th'way I read the secret was that slash isnt sexist, but some slash fans are redic sexist in the way the treat other women.

The secret calls to mind, for me, various situations where female chars get severly bashed, and called variations on weak / pathetic or slutty and whorish, simply for having sex with the wrong guy who is gay in fanon.

Th'way I read the secret was "no-one who uses thes word whore and slut should be able to call themself a feminist" but maybe im reading too much of my own opinions into it.

Re: 117

[identity profile] malle-babbe.livejournal.com 2009-03-07 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I could never understand the "She's a HOOR who gets in the way of the M/M couple" thing, other than as a way of generating a plot. Women in fiction don't get intrigued by a m/m couple?