Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2009-03-14 05:44 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-03-14 05:44 pm
[ SECRET POST #799 ]
⌈ Secret Post #799 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 19 pages, 458 secrets from Secret Submission Post #115.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 147 OP
(Anonymous) 2009-03-15 03:21 am (UTC)(link)If you can help it? That seems pretty easily helped to me.
When I am talking about bashing, I really do mean bashing, and that is more then just spirited discussion, I don't assume that people who bash characters are going to argue in good faith or treat me with respect, so I usually will just call them out on their behavior.
I think that bashing can be something of a misnomer in and of itself. I was recently catching up with the Gundam 00 fandom, and I saw a lot of people being hyperbolic in their dislike of Marina, and in turn getting rude things said about them.
The sad thing about this is that I think these discussions could have really been interesting, concerning Marina as a character and how she's been used by the plot and writers--none of these "bashers" struck me as unintelligent--even if the starting point was "I hope she dies!" But instead we get "I hope she dies!", "STFU, misogynistic jerk!", "WTF, don't call me that!" on and on and on. If your initial response to something like that is "HOW DARE YOU" instead of "Why would you say that?", I think you're missing out on something potentially interesting.
It's like the other day, the secret about Godot. The person that took the time to say "I don't agree with you, but I can understand where you're coming from, here is my thoughts on the matter" was ultimately a lot more interesting to read. Even if you don't understand where the person is coming from, I don't think you should assume you know why a person is "bashing" until you've taken the time to ask.
I don't understand why, the people who defend female characters are suddenly on the wrong side or somehow defending fictional women at the expense of real ones.
Where did I say that defenders are on the wrong side? I'm just saying I've noticed a pattern of people getting defensive on a character's behalf that ultimately leads to bad blood and hurt feelings. Since this is usually wrapped up in the word feminism, I specifically made mention of women, as that sort of thing makes me sad to see. And I don't think it's really so much about feminism as it is about favoritism, to judge the actions of many of them when it comes to women they don't like as much.
If you are not that type of person, then don't feel as though you have to defend yourself to me. Keep fighting the good fight, and I mean that in a totally sincere way.
Re: 147 OP
I mean I am human, and sometimes I slipped. You kind of insulted me earlier without meaning to. Sometimes people do awful things without meaning to, I can't say that I will be perfect all the time.
The sad thing about this is that I think these discussions could have really been interesting, concerning Marina as a character and how she's been used by the plot and writers--none of these "bashers" struck me as unintelligent--even if the starting point was "I hope she dies!" But instead we get "I hope she dies!", "STFU, misogynistic jerk!", "WTF, don't call me that!" on and on and on. If your initial response to something like that is "HOW DARE YOU" instead of "Why would you say that?", I think you're missing out on something potentially interesting.
See, I am tired of that starting point, and if starts at that point I don't engage anymore, because at this point I don't want to hear their justifications for why they think a character deserves a firey death or whatever, they set the tone of that conversation, and I don't trust people who start off that way to argue in good faith.
Maybe because when I tried what you said those people should do, I got called a "homophobic slut", and when called that I can't assume good will on their part, and they lost my respect, so at that point I usually step out.
Where did I say that defenders are on the wrong side? I'm just saying I've noticed a pattern of people getting defensive on a character's behalf that ultimately leads to bad blood and hurt feelings.
I guess my point is that that is true for both sides, not just the one side, the source of bad blood does not just lie with the side that is defensive. I think my problem is that you seem to be insinuating that the responsibility lies solely on one group when it doesn't. It is what happens when people are overly invested in their own opinion.