fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #800 ]

⌈ Secret Post #800 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

__________________________________________________

102.

__________________________________________________

103.

__________________________________________________

104.

__________________________________________________

105.

__________________________________________________

106.

__________________________________________________

107.

__________________________________________________

108.

__________________________________________________

109.

__________________________________________________

110.

[Supernatural]

__________________________________________________

111.

__________________________________________________

112.

[Jerry Falwell]

__________________________________________________

113.

__________________________________________________

114.

__________________________________________________

115.

__________________________________________________

116.

__________________________________________________

117.

__________________________________________________

118.

__________________________________________________

119.

__________________________________________________

120.

__________________________________________________

121.

__________________________________________________

122.

__________________________________________________

123.

__________________________________________________

124.

__________________________________________________

125.

[xxxHOLiC]

__________________________________________________

126.

__________________________________________________

127.

__________________________________________________

128.

[Joel McHale]

__________________________________________________

129.

__________________________________________________

130.

__________________________________________________

131.

__________________________________________________

132.

__________________________________________________

133.

__________________________________________________

134.

__________________________________________________

135.

__________________________________________________

136.

__________________________________________________

137.

[Neopets]

__________________________________________________

138.

__________________________________________________

139.

__________________________________________________

140.

__________________________________________________

141.

__________________________________________________

142.

__________________________________________________

143.

__________________________________________________

144.

__________________________________________________

145.

__________________________________________________

146.

__________________________________________________

147.

__________________________________________________

148.

__________________________________________________

149.

__________________________________________________

150.

__________________________________________________

151.

__________________________________________________

152.

__________________________________________________

153.

__________________________________________________

154.

__________________________________________________

155.

__________________________________________________

156.

__________________________________________________

157.

__________________________________________________

158.

__________________________________________________

159.

__________________________________________________

160.

__________________________________________________

161.

__________________________________________________

162.

__________________________________________________

163.

__________________________________________________

164. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

165.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 383 secrets from Secret Submission Post #115.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I... sort of agree. Race and racism and how it affects fandom IS a really really important thing to talk about, and it's something we should be talking about. But apart from the people who already are anti-racist and passionate about the issue and want to have this discussion, people don't really find talking about race/racism to be very enjoyable. It's scary for everyone involved, no matter what race they are, and it's emotionally taxing to have to deal with it instead of ignoring it. Discussions about race take mostly everyone outside of their comfort zone.

Does that mean we should just ignore it? Of course not! But because race comes up so much in meta/fandom discussions, the average person can get quite overwhelmed. People who are overwhelmed can get overly defensive about it ("who, me? I'm not privileged, this whole discussion is stupid and full of reverse racism!!!") or just ignore the topic altogether ("this is lame, write more porn.")

Because of that, I think it might be helpful not to have this discussion so much on communities that aren't devoted to the discussion in general. Once in a while, meta or discussion about racism will make you think. Maybe it'll make you want to go to space online or offline that's completely about the racism discussion. But right now we're just overwhelmed with the amount of racism discussion, and there's too much going on for us to really absorb as much as we probably should. It's "oh, this again?" instead of "hey, you've got a point." We should still talk about it, of course, but people will listen better if it's in smaller doses.

White people who are overwhelmed can get overly defensive

Fixed that for you.

I'm not the comment OP.

I'm gonna tell you a huge FUCK YOU anyway.

I'm black and I can tell you that I'm starting to get a bit sick of all this discussion that is leading NOWHERE and it sure as hell isn't HELPING ME IN MY REAL LIFE.

How about you people getting off your fat fucking WHITE ASSES and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I escape to fandom so that I don't have to deal with this shit that I'm already dealing with in my real life. I don't want to sit here and constantly read about the white fucking lardass bitches who seem to think they know what's going on and how they know how to fix it all!

Their solution? TALK ABOUT IT IN FANDOM! Because that seems to translate so well into the real world where fandom is little represented anyway.

This comment wins.

EXACTLY.

I kind of have a problem with your last paragraph.

Racism is a big social problem that affects many things. As Racefail has shown, fandom is not excluded from it. Therefore, I think it should be allowed to be discussed there. Also, your basis for it being regulated and contained in "small doses" assumes from the fact that it makes white people uncomfortable. Well, what about the rest of the non-white people? Does their opinion not count? Should they shut up because they are hurting white people's feelings? I think not.

Look, I'm white. And yes, discussing white privilege and racism against non-whites makes me uncomfortable. But it mostly makes me sad. And angry at the injustice of it all. But ultimately, discussions like these make me want to change things. And I doubt that would have happened if Racefail/whitewashing/etc. hadn't invaded my fandom.

Argh, meant "stems" not assumes.

I was not the one that added the "it makes white people uncomfortable" comment, obviously, and no, I don't think that race-related conversation only makes white people uncomfortable.

I'm white and can't speak for others, but I've heard many POCs discuss how they were uncomfortable talking about racism, too. It's one thing when there's obvious/i> racism out there, like the kind you see on TV: pretty much everyone would agree that it's wrong to be outwardly rude to POCs based on race, or to bar them from stores or use racist slurs. But bringing up racism where it's not obvious, or even discussing racial issues something might have ("I know you like this show, but the way they've got the non-white characters subordinate to a white guy all the time feels kind of racist to me", for example), especially fandom, can get you accused of seeing racism everywhere, or always focusing too much on race, or being oversensitive or too easily offended. And at the same time, there's the worry that people you like to talk to, possibly even people that you care about, are going to dismiss your feelings because even if it's really something that affects you personally, you're just being oversensitive. People act as if they don't care about your feelings, amd people treat you as if you're defined by your race, even if they're on your side. It's not a comfortable situation for anyone.

Because we're talking about different individuals here, there are probably some POCs (as well as some white allies) that are comfortable bringing up race-related conversation whenever it seems appropriate, as well as some that don't want to talk about race ever, for various reasons.

I'm not saying anyone should officially regulate it. I'm just saying moderation might be best. Of course there's no need to limit race-related conversations on activist or anti-racist forums/comms/space. But what you want is to get to people, correct? To inform them about their privilege and what they can do not to trample on other people with it? If you're trying to just get the message out there, or keep talking about it with like-minded people, do what you're doing. But if you actually want to convince other people to be more color-conscious, then I stand by what I said. Right now, people are overwhelmed by racefail and they need a break. I'm aware that people don't get a break from privilege and whether they have it or don't, but being an anti-racist runs on voluntary participation. If racial discussions came up a little less frequently, the people who right now are overwhelmed might be willing to think about it more. It's not a perfect solution, but people aren't perfect.

Also, re "hurting white people's feelings": No, it's not wrong by any account (although I still believe it's best to be a bit more tactful) to point out to white people that hey, by virtue of being white you've got these privileges that POCs don't, and you should probably try to change things, or at least be conscious of the inequality. If that hurts someone's feelings, then tough cookie. But, um, white people are still people. And hurting people's feelings, when you don't have to and there's no clear advantage to it, isn't a good thing. Bringing up white privilege etc doesn't need to be sugar-coated, but I've seen the opposite (arsenic-coated?) and it's painful and alienating. (and no, I don't mean painful as in realizing you're indirectly part of the problem, but painful as in having people treat you like a villian that isn't capable of changing and choosing to help instead of hurt.) I'm not asking to be treated like a speshul unique snowflake with a fragile ego, but basic human respect is not an unfair thing to want.

Ack, sorry it's all in italics! Code messups suck, I should have previewed.

[ SECRET POST #800 ]

129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129

Re: 129